Rake What grapplw to get. Brush or rake?

[JR LEWIS]

I just purchased a new Kubota 7040 HD with a LA 1153 loader. It has one set of remotes on the rear.

I have a 50 acre hobby farm that just dug a pond and have brush and trees to clean up. I kind of like the idea of the brush set-up, but am sure the rake will do a great job as well.

Never had one so don't know much about them. I'm guessing the cylinders will run off the rear remotes. Do I have to relocate the remotes to the front or do they come with long enough hoses for the rear?

Thanks in advance for any and all advise. This site has helped me a lot.


J.R.

 

[IslandTractor]

I wouldn't focus so much on brush vs rake as virtually all grapples can do either. The bigger choice is between what is commonly called root rake or "traditional" grapple (like the one in my avatar) and a clam shell style. Again, both can do the same work and each has advantages to consider.

The traditional root rake grapples from WRLong (OBG style) or from other manufacturers (Markham, ATI, various other skid steer implement companies) are generally less expensive than the clam shells. The traditional grapple allow you to scoop something up like a rock or log and just hold it with gravity. The clamshell can only pick something up by clamping it with hydraulic force. The clamshells always have full length upper jaws which is convenient for scooping up small sticks etc. Traditional grapples can have one or two upper jaws. Both types seem to work equally well with brush, bushes, individual logs, rocks etc. I think you can probably load up a traditional grapple a bit more as you can take multiple "bites" without needing to release your existing load but I'm not sure that is an important difference. The traditional open bottom grapples have longer bottom tines which is useful for leverage in popping roots and permits a bit more curl than the clamshell allows.

I've never heard anyone who owns a clam shell style report on TBN that they wished they'd bought a traditional root rake grapple. Likewise, no one has reported the inverse and traditional grapple owners are also a happy bunch.

Another option is to just add a couple of upper arms to your bucket (I presuem 72 or 84 inch). That would be the least expensive solution and there are definitely a lot of bucket grapple fans on TBN too. The only downside of the bucket grapple, especially if you have a toothbar, is that the bucket sides interfer to some extent with your ability to carry large wide loads like logs or trees (but no problem with smaller amounts of those things).

I have a loader that is pretty close to the one you have in capacity (2700lbs at pivot pins) and I have a 48 inch light duty traditional grapple. I'd say that either that size or one size up, the 60 inch would make sense in either clamshell or traditional style. If you read the grapple posts recently you'll see that Markham has just introduced a very solid 60 inch traditional grapple for the fire sale price of $900 delivered. Don't even bother checking anywhere else if price is an issue. On the other hand, if price is no object it is easy to spend $3000 on a clamshell made with T1 steel or other exotic abrasion resistant steels. I tend to think those are only really appropriate for skid steer use commercially as it is awfully hard to do any real damage to or wear out a grapple.

You can easily run the grapple from your rear remotes. Probably the only issue to investigate is whether your remote levers are conveniently located so you can drop your hand off the FEL joystick and reach the remote lever without looking (like reaching for the gear shift on a car).

Good luck with your search.

 

[JR LEWIS]

I wouldn't focus so much on brush vs rake as virtually all grapples can do either. The bigger choice is between what is commonly called root rake or "traditional" grapple (like the one in my avatar) and a clam shell style. Again, both can do the same work and each has advantages to consider.

The traditional root rake grapples from WRLong (OBG style) or from other manufacturers (Markham, ATI, various other skid steer implement companies) are generally less expensive than the clam shells. The traditional grapple allow you to scoop something up like a rock or log and just hold it with gravity. The clamshell can only pick something up by clamping it with hydraulic force. The clamshells always have full length upper jaws which is convenient for scooping up small sticks etc. Traditional grapples can have one or two upper jaws. Both types seem to work equally well with brush, bushes, individual logs, rocks etc. I think you can probably load up a traditional grapple a bit more as you can take multiple "bites" without needing to release your existing load but I'm not sure that is an important difference. The traditional open bottom grapples have longer bottom tines which is useful for leverage in popping roots and permits a bit more curl than the clamshell allows.

I've never heard anyone who owns a clam shell style report on TBN that they wished they'd bought a traditional root rake grapple. Likewise, no one has reported the inverse and traditional grapple owners are also a happy bunch.

Another option is to just add a couple of upper arms to your bucket (I presuem 72 or 84 inch). That would be the least expensive solution and there are definitely a lot of bucket grapple fans on TBN too. The only downside of the bucket grapple, especially if you have a toothbar, is that the bucket sides interfer to some extent with your ability to carry large wide loads like logs or trees (but no problem with smaller amounts of those things).

I have a loader that is pretty close to the one you have in capacity (2700lbs at pivot pins) and I have a 48 inch light duty traditional grapple. I'd say that either that size or one size up, the 60 inch would make sense in either clamshell or traditional style. If you read the grapple posts recently you'll see that Markham has just introduced a very solid 60 inch traditional grapple for the fire sale price of $900 delivered. Don't even bother checking anywhere else if price is an issue. On the other hand, if price is no object it is easy to spend $3000 on a clamshell made with T1 steel or other exotic abrasion resistant steels. I tend to think those are only really appropriate for skid steer use commercially as it is awfully hard to do any real damage to or wear out a grapple.

You can easily run the grapple from your rear remotes. Probably the only issue to investigate is whether your remote levers are conveniently located so you can drop your hand off the FEL joystick and reach the remote lever without looking (like reaching for the gear shift on a car).

Good luck with your search.

Thank you for the in depth look at my options. I spoke with Markham and they advised the 72" heavy duty model at $2100.00 shipped. I am confident it's a fine piece, but a little more than I'd like to spend right now. I just paid for the tractor on Friday...lol.. I will look more into the 60" model. It may be right up my alley. I'm pretty easy on my equipment. Time is not money when I'm playing on the farm, and the chores I need to do are cleaning up debris from abandoned ag farm and brush. Do you feel the $900.00, 60" model would fit the bill?


Thanks again.

 

[IslandTractor]

Do you feel the $900.00, 60" model would fit the bill?
.

Yep. No issue I can see unless you are a contractor who is working the grapple hard 8 hrs a day. I have had my 48" light duty grapple (lighter construction than the Markham product) for three seasons now and have done a lot of aggressive brush clearing and rock moving. The grapple has withstood that without problem save for a few minor battlescars that do not affect function at all. If someone stole mine today I'd order a Markham 48 tomorrow. As noted, your loader may be just a hundred or two hundred pounds of lift more powerful than mine so I think the Markham 60 would be fine for doing the same sort of work.

 

[EddieWalker]

The clamshells always have full length upper jaws which is convenient for scooping up small sticks etc.

While I have no experience with grapples, and until mine arrives, I can't say that I actually own one, I did just pay for a Root Grapple with Duel Grapples.

I only saw a few pics of them in my searches, but from what others have said on here and what I've seen in person, the due grapples have an advantage in holding uneven loads. My concern with the single graple that is the full width as the rake is that it will stop closing at one end while still not touching at the other end. A log is a good example of this, especially one that has allot of taper in it.

Since I will be picking up trees and branches with mine, I chose the root grapple so that I don't have to slide anything under the brush piles. I will just open the grapple and lower it over the pile, then close the grapples and carry it away. If I had to scoop the piles first, I think that I will be pushing some stuff back into the trees that I'm trying to save.

Not having actually owned or used either styler, it's just the way it looks to me. I also don't think I would be too upset having either style.

Eddie

 

[3RRL]

....
I only saw a few pics of them in my searches, but from what others have said on here and what I've seen in person, the due grapples have an advantage in holding uneven loads. My concern with the single graple that is the full width as the rake is that it will stop closing at one end while still not touching at the other end. A log is a good example of this, especially one that has allot of taper in it.

Eddie

You are absolutely correct about what you said here. Take a look at these photos. Without a doubt, in each case, one of those rocks would not be clamped and fall out of my bucket. That last one is an extreme example.



Although a log is one piece and can be held in one spot with little or no problem, it could twist inside your grapple if not held securely in 2 places. But it can be done and I know picking up a log with one jaw is a lot easier for that reason. Those rocks like in the above photos, where each needs to be clamped, I would be limited to picking up only one at a time.
Here are some log photos where the dual jaws are working at different clamp heights.

 

[IslandTractor]

I think Eddie and Rob's comments are correct based on the pros of dual upper jaws vs a single long upper jaw as is found in clamshell grapples. There have been a couple of reports of damage to clamshells presumably with asymmetric loads on that top long grapple. However, I'd add that a single upper grapple such as found on the 48 inch style I have or the 60 inch from Markham do not have that vulnerability (nor do they have the broader coverage of the clamshell or dual grapples). For brush and logs there is no problem holding the material with just one upper jaw. Smaller sticks etc would be more of an issue. Asymmetric loads are not an issue with a single narrow upper grapple however as there is almost always a way to grab either the fat or the skinny side of the object, you don't need to grab both ends at once to have it under control. See photos.

A potential downside of dual upper grapples, besides the added weight and cost, is how you would load a small but heavy object like a boulder. Presumably it is not difficult to have one side of each upper grapple grasp something in the middle but that then leaves you with the same asymmetric forces on the grapple jaw that are potentially harmful. If instead you grasp the rock with just one of the grapples, then you have an asymmetrical load on the FEL itself which ain't good for the loader or tractor stability. For an example, look at the big rock I pulled out of the ground in the photos in my first post. I could not have done that, I don't think, with a dual grapple.

I don't want to confuse the OP with arcane details of pros and cons of different grapple types and would reemphasize and earlier point that no one with any style of grapple seems to complain much at all about any deficiencies. Any grapple is better than no grapple.

 

[JR LEWIS]

I think Eddie and Rob's comments are correct based on the pros of dual upper jaws vs a single long upper jaw as is found in clamshell grapples. There have been a couple of reports of damage to clamshells presumably with asymmetric loads on that top long grapple. However, I'd add that a single upper grapple such as found on the 48 inch style I have or the 60 inch from Markham do not have that vulnerability (nor do they have the broader coverage of the clamshell or dual grapples). For brush and logs there is no problem holding the material with just one upper jaw. Smaller sticks etc would be more of an issue. Asymmetric loads are not an issue with a single narrow upper grapple however as there is almost always a way to grab either the fat or the skinny side of the object, you don't need to grab both ends at once to have it under control. See photos.

A potential downside of dual upper grapples, besides the added weight and cost, is how you would load a small but heavy object like a boulder. Presumably it is not difficult to have one side of each upper grapple grasp something in the middle but that then leaves you with the same asymmetric forces on the grapple jaw that are potentially harmful. If instead you grasp the rock with just one of the grapples, then you have an asymmetrical load on the FEL itself which ain't good for the loader or tractor stability. For an example, look at the big rock I pulled out of the ground in the photos in my first post. I could not have done that, I don't think, with a dual grapple.

I don't want to confuse the OP with arcane details of pros and cons of different grapple types and would reemphasize and earlier point that no one with any style of grapple seems to complain much at all about any deficiencies. Any grapple is better than no grapple.

I'm leaning closer to the 60" from Markham. Do I need anything else? Will the hoses be long enough from them to reach my rear remotes? Or, do I need to extend or exchange them? Again, I have a 7040 Kubota.

 

[IslandTractor]

I'm leaning closer to the 60" from Markham. Do I need anything else? Will the hoses be long enough from them to reach my rear remotes? Or, do I need to extend or exchange them? Again, I have a 7040 Kubota.

You will need extra hydraulic hose and the appropriate quick connect fittings. My advice would be to get the grapple and a standard amount (3 or 4 feet) of hose with 1/2 inch male NPT fittings from Markham. That would probably be their usual practice anyway. 3-4 feet should give you enough hose to go from the grapple to the torque tube on your loader.

I would then go to either a local hydraulic shop, or if you want to do it via internet/phone then contact a hydraulic supply shop (eg www dot surpluscenter dot com), and purchase two lengths of 3/8inch or 1/2 inch hydraulic hose with 1/2 inch male NPT fittings to go from your rear remote to the FEL torque tube. You'd also buy the appropriate set of matched fittings for the front hookup (two male and two female QCs) and the rear connection to your remotes (2 males). To measure the amount of hose you need from front to back it is a good idea to take a garden hose and thread it exactly as you would route the hydraulics. In my case (and I think this is pretty standard), start at the back remotes, leave an extra couple of feet so you have a nice gentle bend, pass over the left rear axle, under the operator station, up the left FEL mounting post, along the left FEL arm to the torque tube. Again, better to have a little too long than too short but you don't want lots of extra hose flopping about to snag branches etc. Once you get the two hoses cut to size with fittings, you can zip tie them under the operator station and on the FEL to keep them secure and away from possible snags. Other than securing the hose all you really need then is to use some teflon tape to attach the QC fittings and make the connections. No need to do anything else really before operating the grapple. It is definitely a good idea to install a bracket on the torque tube to hold the connectors in place but for temporary use you can just zip tie the whole thing to the torque tube.

If you don't know what types of fittings are on the rear remotes of your tractor I'm sure other TBN owners can tell you or your dealer can. You'd just need to make sure they are compatible with whatever QC connectors you buy. I'm guessing they are 1/2 inch Pioneer QC tractor style, NOT the flat type that skidsteers use.

I'll anticipate a question we all had when we started and say that you don't need to worry about prefilling the hydraulic lines etc. Just hook them up and use them. Check your hydraulic fluid reservoir later and you may find you need to add a pint or two of HST fluid but don't worry about it.

 

[3RRL]

I for one sure appreciate the time and effort Island makes to provide these informative posts.
Sure saves me a lot of typing.