What I Learned by Renting a Tractor. . .

[jezreel]

Greetings All. . .

I posted one of those "I'm buying my first tractor" threads some months back. I received A Lot of great advice from you folks, and I appreciate it. My wife an I are in our new home with 39 acres, and are loving it. I was blindsided by the MoneyMan in the family (my wife) once we moved in when she said, "we can't afford a tractor right now." OK, plan B began. I have rented a tractor/bush hog twice since we have been in the new house. For all those folks who give the advice to rent one for a days or a week, THAT is the best advice to give the new tractor shopper.

The tractor I rented gave me A Lot of info to understand what I liked, didn't like, need and didn't need. I found that there are not a lot of places that rent tractors/bush hogs. The ones that do, only seem to rent tractors in the 30hp range. I ended up renting a JD 3038E. I rented it the first time for one day, and the second time for one week. I have about 11 acres of pasture, 1 acre for the house and the rest trees. Here are the things I learned.

1) I need a tractor with enough HP to sufficiently handle at least a 6' rotary cutter, preferably 7' or 8'. It is a real drag mowing 11 acres with a 5' cutter.
2) I do NOT like Hydrostatic drive. Wow! ! ! Do not like the noise, or the HP loss. I am very proficient with a stick drive, and prefer it. That comes from driving one for a week. Even for a day. A test drive or two at the dealer would not have allowed me to really get the feel of that.
3) It is HOT here in Texas. It is Dusty in my pasture. I am very allergic to grass and dust. Driving that tractor with a tight mask on my face was very annoying. I would REALLY like a tractor with a cab. But that will only happen if I get a "second tier" tractor, like a TYM. I am not dead-set against a TYM, but I have been focused on Orange. Budget is certainly gonna be an issue with the "MoneyMan". I most likely will have to continue wearing a dust mask.
4) Finally, I learned that Cup Holders on a tractor are STUPID. When I'm on the tractor, I'm working. You can only have a yeti type water container that fits snugly or it flies out of the tractor when you hit a bump. Sheeeeesh! ! !

I think biggest questions potential tractor owners have is what size tractor do I need. Rent one, and go from there. Do some work with it. It became quite evident what I needed after using the rental. And, I now have enough experience with HST to know I don't like it. I will most likely be buying a low hour used machine, so I will get as much HP as my budget will allow.

I really appreciate all the help you folks gave me with my initial post.

For all you potential tractor owners. . . RENT a tractor first. That is the best advice given on this site.

jp

 

[K5lwq]

That was really good advice and wise of you to listen. I am sure you will have more revelations if you rent a few more times. There is so much more to owning a tractor than the feel and comfort. And picking a particular brand over another can be misleading.

I have a guy that works for me that has decided to buy a new tractor and take some odd jobs on his days off to make extra cash. Last Thursday he took delivery of a brand new Mahindra tractor. This past weekend he took his first job with the tractor and managed to bust a rear light off and bend his loader bucket. Is this because he did not choose a good brand? Not at all.

Most, not all, problems with equipment can be traced back to user error, not brand. Not understanding what the limitations of a certain sized machine are or not able to recognize the proper way to approach a situation is the bigger problem. Damage to the machine is not always the worst part. Injuries or death are sometimes part of the equation.

It takes seat time and a few mistakes to figure that out and unfortunately many people never do.

All that to say, good job on taking the advice others have offered and making it count for you! Good luck and enjoy the new place!

 

[i7win7]

3) It is HOT here in Texas. It is Dusty in my pasture. I am very allergic to grass and dust. Driving that tractor with a tight mask on my face was very annoying. I would REALLY like a tractor with a cab. But that will only happen if I get a "second tier" tractor, like a TYM. I am not dead-set against a TYM, but I have been focused on Orange. Budget is certainly gonna be an issue with the "MoneyMan". I most likely will have to continue wearing a dust mask.

I use one of these for sanding wood and cutting cement with angle grinders. If you choose to get one, consider extra batteries and filters.
trend pro dust helmet - Bing

 

[sodamo]

Good on ya getting some seat time before making a major purchase decision. BUT

You didn’t exactly say how many hours you did what tasks. That mix could possibly lead you to different conclusions. Not that there is anything wrong with yours but I’ll put out some thoughts to consider for future trials.

Mowing- bigger could indeed be better, maybe. Mowing around any of those trees? Property perfectly flat or have some slopes? Will the mowing be same in a few years compared to now? I too tell myself that a larger mower would be quicker, especially now that it’s pretty much grass now that all the scrubby brush etc is gone. But I also know that bigger had me scalping places and scarring other - 2 things my wife alway managed to observe when I had larger mowers. I’m only mowing about 14 acres but better conditions pretty much balance out the increase in number of passes. I think I’m a bit quicker with my flail vs rotary.

HST-
Lack of PTO power - how did you conclude with only 1 tractor? If that concerned maybe a tractor with more HP. Can’t say I’ve ever noticed an issue with either my 30, 35, or 40 HP HST tractors.
I too can drive a stick, so can my wife but she can no longer operate a clutch. I may operate 99% of time but the times she has were invaluable to the task at hand.
Other than mowing, what else did you do? Extensive FEL work? PHD, Backhoe?Anything back and forth, other than just GO?
A cab would indeed be nice, especially with harsh conditions etc. I just have a canopy, don’t operate in the rain, have to take shower when dusty. Would be a real luxury for me, but heck, already live in paradise.
There are other things you didn’t mention that I personally think are very important, important enough that I would NOT buy without them. Skid steer type quick attach. I’m always switching between bucket and pallet forks. And there are times when I don’t want anything on the front. Extendable lower links and telescopic stabilizer. Make changing 3pt stuff so much easier.
Adequate hydraulics, remotes. Love my T&T.
I think you are off to a great start, just suggesting that some decisions need a broad outlook.
My wife was also less than totally supportive at first. Our 1st tractor was very important to building our house, this last tractor, my 3rd she supported whole heartedly.
Have fun

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

My Chief Financial Officer was also "resistive" to buying a tractor. Until we had it, and she got to see and enjoy the benefits of it for herself. Then she was totally on board with it, and still says it was a good decision today.

Fast forward 3 years, and it's never brought up in conversation at all, unless in some positive form or another.

 

[troverman]

Jezreel, if you hate HST and want gear, one other option would be GST, especially if you said you were leaning "Orange." I'm assuming you meant Kubota orange and not the Korean clones, not that there is anything particularly wrong with a Kioti.

GST - Glideshift - is a gear-driven tractor which uses a hydraulic shuttle and a hydraulic clutch for gear changes. The current Kubota GST model has 12 gears among 3 ranges, but unlike a gear tractor you can change them on the fly, through all the ranges, without using the clutch...and of course shuttle between forward and reverse. I liked mine...they put down more PTO power than an HST given the same engine HP.

That said, nothing is more productive overall than HST. It gives you immense control of speed with less fatigue. If you are in tight quarters, or slopes, want to go slow or fast, the HST offers all that without touching a clutch...shuttle...or shifter. Nothing is faster from going forward and backwards. There is no clutch to wear out.

My take, if you didn't like HST because of the noise and low PTO output, is that you should try a different tractor altogether. Even among the same manufacturer some HST models make more whine then others. For example, I owned a Kubota L2501 which made a ton of HST whine. I also own a Kubota L4060 which basically makes zero whine. Yes, HST does use a bit more HP and is less efficient out the PTO. That said, carefully study the ratings of engine HP and PTO rated power among a bunch of tractors...you'll see some are definitely more efficient than others.

As for the cab vs open, there are pros and cons. Most of my tractors have been open, and I finally bought a cab for many of the same reasons you want one for...cooler in the summer, warmer in the winter, not breathing in dust and grass allergens. You also avoid bees and reduce the noise levels...you don't need to wear ear protection. However, you can't get nearly as close to treelines and working under tree canopies like you can in an open station. Visibility in a cab is much worse. Mowing in dusty conditions typically causes all the glass to be covered. Yes, you have a front and rear wiper-washer, but nothing can be done about the side door glass. I found myself bringing a few gallons of water in the back of the truck to the field just to clean the side glass...couldn't see, especially in bright sun. I've already broken one of the work lights mounted high on the roof of the cab from a tree, had to replace it. So there are things to consider.

I'm a Kubota fan - they aren't perfect, but have been incredibly reliable for me and a better value. I have both Kubota and Deere dealers about equidistant from me...each time I buy a new tractor, I always also try out a similar Deere. Nice machines, but usually less features for more money, and even though I prefer to buy American...ultimately the Deere has a Japanese engine in it too.

 

[rScotty]

Greetings All. . .

I posted one of those "I'm buying my first tractor" threads some months back. I received A Lot of great advice from you folks, and I appreciate it. My wife an I are in our new home with 39 acres, and are loving it. I was blindsided by the MoneyMan in the family (my wife) once we moved in when she said, "we can't afford a tractor right now." OK, plan B began. I have rented a tractor/bush hog twice since we have been in the new house. For all those folks who give the advice to rent one for a days or a week, THAT is the best advice to give the new tractor shopper.

The tractor I rented gave me A Lot of info to understand what I liked, didn't like, need and didn't need. I found that there are not a lot of places that rent tractors/bush hogs. The ones that do, only seem to rent tractors in the 30hp range. I ended up renting a JD 3038E. I rented it the first time for one day, and the second time for one week. I have about 11 acres of pasture, 1 acre for the house and the rest trees. Here are the things I learned.

1) I need a tractor with enough HP to sufficiently handle at least a 6' rotary cutter, preferably 7' or 8'. It is a real drag mowing 11 acres with a 5' cutter.
2) I do NOT like Hydrostatic drive. Wow! ! ! Do not like the noise, or the HP loss. I am very proficient with a stick drive, and prefer it. That comes from driving one for a week. Even for a day. A test drive or two at the dealer would not have allowed me to really get the feel of that.
3) It is HOT here in Texas. It is Dusty in my pasture. I am very allergic to grass and dust. Driving that tractor with a tight mask on my face was very annoying. I would REALLY like a tractor with a cab. But that will only happen if I get a "second tier" tractor, like a TYM. I am not dead-set against a TYM, but I have been focused on Orange. Budget is certainly gonna be an issue with the "MoneyMan". I most likely will have to continue wearing a dust mask.
4) Finally, I learned that Cup Holders on a tractor are STUPID. When I'm on the tractor, I'm working. You can only have a yeti type water container that fits snugly or it flies out of the tractor when you hit a bump. Sheeeeesh! ! !

I really appreciate all the help you folks gave me with my initial post.

For all you potential tractor owners. . . RENT a tractor first. That is the best advice given on this site.

jp

I was hoping that those were the kinds of things you would find out. About half are tractor things and the other half are personal preferences.

On the HST, you will get a lot of pushback on that but I agree with what you found. For what you are doing you probably want either a stick or a power shift with shuttle rather than HST. And that simple decision will open up a whole huge world of good used tractors for you to look at. Because HST is the one thing that can make a used tractor a bad investment and HST wear is the one thing that us mechanical guys just have not figured out how to measure on a used tractor. HST repairs are hugely expensive and hard to diagnose. It's generally OK, but still scary on used machines. Take away the HST, and used tractors look about a thousand percent more appealing. We understand geared transmissions. Plus they cost a whole lot less. You may even save enough by going to power shift to pay for a lot of that cab. Especially if you are willing to look at low hour used tractors.

And now that you are open to looking at good used low hour power and shuttle shifting tractors.....you are in a reliable range where you just might save enough to get a cab with an air-suspended seat....heavens, those seats are nice on rough ground.

Not enough has been said about the HST whine. I don't like it either, but you do get used to it. Frankly I wonder if there is any truth to the thought that a lot of folks today grow up slightly deaf and so the HST squall and whine doesn't bother them so much.

And keep in mind that right now HST happens to be popular. Yet there was a time when HST didn't yet exist, and the same debate was between straight manual stick shift geared transmissions and the new "power shift" automatic clutching" geared transmissions. Before that it was manual stick versus shuttle shift. Until you use a tractor for something like mowing, you'll never understand how little shifting or clutching is done while mowing. And what there is, the power shift and shuttle will take care of. Loader work involves a lot of back and forth, and that is where HST shines. But frankly if you have power shift and shuttle shifting tranny it's almost as good as HST and you still won't use the clutch much.

I'm guessing now you see the value of a nice smooth accurate 3pt lift with a reliable repeat-the-position setting. It's hard to explain just how nice it is to operate a smooth 3pt when mowing. JD has traditionally had nicely functioning 3pts but not all makes and models do.

I bet you learned how important seating and exhaust postion are too. BTW, cabs are just as nice as you think. It's why they are so popular in hot climates or wet cold ones. Our here in the western mountains cabs aren't so popular. Nice to have when it is snowing, but confining the rest of the time. What is always nice is an insulated canopy that keeps the weather off your head. Old timers used an umbrella, and you can still buy them from JD and surprisingly reasonably, too.

Cup holders! Yes, they don't hold cups very well, and tools worse. Look for a big enough cupholder so that you can wedge the cup in with a rag.
No tractor I've ever seen holds any tools or anything very well. They don't have a decent toolbox built om, or a place to carry chains, shovel, or a chainsaw. So don't expect any of that. I know, it's crazy that they don't. Sort of like a car without a trunk..... but it's been that way for 50 years or more.

On HP.... well, there again the geared tractor has an efficiency advantage. Instead of HP you can always slow down a little and use a lower gear. That is why so many tractors traditionally come with so many speeds. 12 and 24 speed transmissions are common, and some even have an additional hi/low in each. You find the gear that is comfortable with your land, load, and HP. It isn't a race. Power shift gives you instant fingertip control to shift up or down a few gears as conditions change. It's even easier than HST.

Tractor on... now you know what you are looking for. Congrats.
rScotty

 

[TractorGuy]

Renting is a great way to get your feet wet. I recommend buying the extra insurance. I rented a mini ex a few years back and I told them I don't want to be responsible for ANYTHING. I did back it into a tree and put a scratch in the back but didn't break anything.

I hear ya on the TYM cab tractor pricing. I was leaning that way a while back but never could make myself pull the trigger. Partly because the nearest dealer is 150 miles away and is a garden center rather than a full fledged tractor dealer. What you get for the money looks to be very attractive on the surface. From what I've read I would never consider a rebranded TYM but I don't know if the TYM brand makes all that much difference. Haven't looked in a while but a couple years back they were advertising the 37 HP with loader, cab, and AC for just over 25 grand.

Having owned two different HST John Deeres I can say not all HST tractors are created equal. Neither my 855 or my 4310 whine. The 4310 with it's eHydro took some getting used to since the forward reverse inputs are electrical. Not as linear as the mechanical inputs on the 855. That said I wouldn't trade my 4310 for three 855s. It is much smoother and the cruise control is SWEET. Cruise control is a must have for mowing with HST.

My dream tractor is a 50ish HP cab John Deere with HST. Preferably a good used machine that is pre Tier 4.

 

[k0ua]

Having owned two different HST John Deeres I can say not all HST tractors are created equal. Neither my 855 or my 4310 whine. The 4310 with it's eHydro took some getting used to since the forward reverse inputs are electrical. Not as linear as the mechanical inputs on the 855. That said I wouldn't trade my 4310 for three 855s. It is much smoother and the cruise control is SWEET. Cruise control is a must have for mowing with HST.

Truer words were never spoken. Basing a decision about hydro tractors from a JD 3038e is a mistake. A JD 3038e is the lowest common denominator of tractor, made to a price not performance point. An unscrupulous sales person tried to sell me one of those once. Even then as a relative noob, I could see that model was seriously lacking in many areas.

 

[shooterdon]

My wants were for a Kubota but my wallet decided on an LS. If you have a dealer near you they are worth a look. The LS cab was $4000 additional and well worth it. Like you I am allergic to dust and grass.

As to the money man...tractors are not like cars/trucks. Figure 25-30 years of use and higher retained value if you ever sell it.