What is a UOA you ask.

[KICK]

The simple answer is UOA's are not for everyone. Sure everyone could benefit from them. Everyone could also bebefit from using the best lubricants but not everyone does. .

they are not for everyone. that was my point.

you have to define what is the best lubricant because what is "best" for me is not necessarily better for someone else.

I don't think it matters that much about oil as long as it is in the correct spec because there comes a point where it is good enough, and after that one must ask " when a difference makes no difference, is there a difference?"

I guess I have been a mechanic too long to put too much faith in the mythology of vertain brands of oil or want to chase after the results of one oil analysis.

some may be better than others, but the really high end oils aren't much better or any better at all than the commercially available over the counter mass marketed brands like Mobil 1 or Delvac, Delo etc..

If Mobil1 costs 5 bucks a quart at Wallyworld and Amsoil cost 9 dollars a quart, is the AMSOIL 80 percent better than the Mob1?

 

[kenmac]

If Mobil1 costs 5 bucks a quart at Wallyworld and Amsoil cost 9 dollars a quart, is the AMSOIL 80 percent better than the Mobil 1 ?


If you are going with the high end amsoil at 9 bucks then you have to compare it to the high end mobil 1 which is mobil 1 E.P. I'am not sure of the exact price .But, it's more 5 bucks a quart for EP


But, even At 5 bucks a quart for mobil 1. If you'er asking me , Yes Amsoil is 80 % better than mobil 1

 

[dmccarty]

...If Mobil1 costs 5 bucks a quart at Wallyworld and Amsoil cost 9 dollars a quart, is the AMSOIL 80 percent better than the Mob1?

But with UOA you can see how an oil works in your engine. Its not based on an oil spec sheet but on reality. I run Shell 5w40 in the truck and I think I put it in the tractor last oil change. The UOA on the truck says I can go to 10,000 miles with Shell 5w40 and the filters I have been using. The manual says change the oil at 5,000 miles. I change around 8,000ish. The UOA says I have very little wear on the engine.

One time the UOA showed fuel in the oil! That was not good but it turned out that the driving I was doing at the time was heavy stop and go. I knew that was not good but as a percentage of my miles driven it was pretty low and I was putting quite a bit of highway miles on the same tank of fuel. Figured the highway miles would burn out anything bad. I was wrong. If I had to keep drying in the traffic that caused the fuel in the oil I would have had to lower the miles on the oil. Without UOA I would not have known this was a problem.

UOA tell me how the Shell 5w40 works in my engine. I can then compare that to what I pay for oil and oil changes to decide if I need another oil. Since I have a hard time mentally going to 10,000 miles on the oil even though UOA says I can and the engine is NOT wearing I dont see any reason to buy a more expensive oil. What would the extra money buy me? Nothing.

Without UOA I would just be guessing. With UOA I know what is happening and going to 8,000 miles on the oil saves me time and maybe money. Worst case money wise, I break even buying the 5w40 over a cheaper 15w40.

Later,
Dan

 

[texasjohn]

Dan, thanks for sharing your actual experience with UOA.

I'm a scientific kind of guy... I like numbers that tell me something about my particular vehicle's lubrication.... your story is a good example of what you can learn with numbers... and how it can benefit. Myself, I get a vehicle and drive it until the engine or transmission simply give out... and try to keep that from happening as long as possible.

I'm lookin forward to using Texas Refinery Corp lubricants and benefitting from their included UOA program....

 

[KICK]

Dan, thanks for sharing your actual experience with UOA.

I'm a scientific kind of guy... I like numbers that tell me something about my particular vehicle's lubrication....

I think that " scientific statement" sums the whole UOA thing up.

Many times Scientists are compared with people who rhyme with the word BANAL.

 

[patrick_g]

DieselPower, Thanks for the post. Very informative and your "motivational talk" and explanation of the philosophy behind the process is of great value. Often times folks just follow a rule of thumb, guideline, or good ole boy's guess. Far better to be in a position of knowledge and make well founded decisions based on reality.

Along these lines we see filter minders on some of our vehicles. My '97 Dodge Cummins has OEM filter minder on the air cleaner and now Ford has them too on my 2008 PowerStroke. Our Mercedes 300 TurboDiesel had a minder on the fuel filter so you would know when to change instead of guessing or following a RIGID unthinking schedule. I added an after market spin on fuel filter arrangement with filter minder to my '97 dodge that had canister filter and a $75-$90 labor charge to change.

It is always better to work from a position of knowledge than to guess or blindly follow a fixed schedule whether it is oil changes or a concrete foundation... one size does not fit all.

Pat

 

[jmbrock]

great topic.

2 questions:

i guess that even with UAO, you still change filters at recommended intervals?

at some point does chronological time override service hours? for instance, i know of a person who uses UOA but still changes the oil annualy regardless of hours/mileage.

thanks for your valuable insights.

jeff

 

[texasjohn]

jmbrock...

Welcome to TBN.... good first post question!

Suggestion... fill out your personal profile..helps people understand your equipment and needs when answering questions.

I'll let an expert answer the filter question, but my current plans are to view the UOA results and act accordingly... I'm under the assumption that it will tell you if there is particulate matter that should have been stopped by the filter, but is in circulation... thus, filter must be plugged up...

filter expert... does this thinking hold up under analysis?

 

[mjarrels]

We have been doing oil analysis on aircraft engines and gearboxes for the last 30 years!

mark

 

[DieselPower]

I'll start with filter change intervals. For someone not familiar with reading a UOA and using a standard filter I usually suggest changing the filter at the regular scheduled maintenance interval. You can extend filter change intervals but it really depends on each particular engine, transmision, hydraulic system... Every piece of equipment is different, wears differently and produces different amounts of contamination.

A good rule of thumb for a fairly good running piece of equipment is let's say you have trippled your drain interval from 500 hours to 1,500 hours. I would run a UOA at the 750 hour mark and change the filters then. Resample again at 1,500 hours and perform a full service.

Now, some filter manufacturers over the past couple of years have come out with "extended drain" oil filters. They were specifically designed for the person that is on a extended drain schedule. Basically the filter media inside the filter has been doubled. Twice as much filtering media, twice as much capacity to hold contaminates. They are really gaining popularity in the over the road trucking industry. Are they worth it, in my opinion yes. They can at a minimum double the filter change interval and usually don't cost twice as much as the standard filter does.

Another thing to consider is if you are one of the rare breed that uses bypass filters. If you use a bypass filter system then your standard full flow filter's life can usually be extended anywhere from 2-5 times depending on the effeciency of the bypass filter. This is a whole other topic though.


"at some point does chronological time override service hours? for instance, i know of a person who uses UOA but still changes the oil annualy regardless of hours/mileage."

If you are on a good UOA program then there is no reason to change the oil until the UOA tells you. Two of the main things that happen to oil over extended time are oxidation (caused by the base oils exposure to air/oxygen)and water contamination from condensation. You would start to see your Nitration and water levels start to rise in the UOA which would flag you for a oil change. Like I have said before, that's the beauty of a UOA. If there's nothing wrong with the oil there is no need to change it.