What is E-Hydro?

[MBDiagMan]

Re: What si E-Hydro?

Having been around fork trucks with electronically controlled hydraulic valves, I personally would not DREAM of owning equipment with them until I'm convinced that they have been properly and thoroughly sorted out. They have been an unreliable DISASTER in fork trucks.

 

[Rob-D]

Re: What si E-Hydro?

Having been around fork trucks with electronically controlled hydraulic valves, I personally would not DREAM of owning equipment with them until I'm convinced that they have been properly and thoroughly sorted out. They have been an unreliable DISASTER in fork trucks.

Several factors come into play. First off electronics and electromechanical are two entirely different things.
VCRs failed because of the mechanical properties of the equipment (belts, rubber wheels, spinning heads, solenoids, etc) That's not electronics. Solenoids, relays, etc. are electromechanical. So really what is failing, for the most part, is the mechanical aspect of the design as with the valves you spoke of.
Today technology has addressed a lot of the aspects of mechanical failures. Brushless DC motors that have only two moving parts and stepper motors that run of DC pulses are two of those mechanical issues addressed. Look at the modern CNC lathe, what fails? Electronics? Stepper motors? No, it's the mechanical end.
In electronics it's much easier to design a robust circuit. Let's say a resistor circuit comes in at 1/2 watt but we want to make it bullet proof. We can put a 2 watt resistor in which is way over spec but basically bullet proof and a lot cheaper than a bullet proof mechanical design.

Rob

 

[MBDiagMan]

Re: What si E-Hydro?

If it had to do with the electromechanical hydraulic valves, it failed, switches, circuitry and the valves themselves. These were on Yale electric fork trucks that were rebadged with the Hyster name. The valves are crap, the switches are crap, the controller modules are crap and the connectors are crap. What made it worse was that these electro valves were buried in a position in the truck that made them all but totally impossible to change.

This system has been on these trucks for three years that I know of and they have made no progress in improving it.

Maybe these were the only electro hydraulic valves and systems that ever gave trouble in the entire history of such technology, but it's enough to make me stay away, FAR away from any equipment utilizing hand operated, electro hydraulic valves.

If there were something to be gained by using them, then I could be patient and await their perfection. From where I sit, however, I see absolutely no advantage in them as they are currently used. You have a control of some sort that actuates the valve. What is gained? A handle can RELIABLY actuate a hydraulic valve.

NOW, that said, if there were some computer control of electronic valves that allowed for some complex, intelligent actuation of these valves, THEN there would be a reason for using them, so that the computer or other complex controller could actuate them. For hand operation of a valve, however, stick with the good ol' reliable, lever actuated valve and save yourself, money and headaches.

My $0.02,

 

[Rob-D]

Re: What si E-Hydro?

If it had to do with the electromechanical hydraulic valves, it failed, switches, circuitry and the valves themselves. These were on Yale electric fork trucks that were rebadged with the Hyster name. The valves are crap, the switches are crap, the controller modules are crap and the connectors are crap. What made it worse was that these electro valves were buried in a position in the truck that made them all but totally impossible to change.

This system has been on these trucks for three years that I know of and they have made no progress in improving it.

Maybe these were the only electro hydraulic valves and systems that ever gave trouble in the entire history of such technology, but it's enough to make me stay away, FAR away from any equipment utilizing hand operated, electro hydraulic valves.

If there were something to be gained by using them, then I could be patient and await their perfection. From where I sit, however, I see absolutely no advantage in them as they are currently used. You have a control of some sort that actuates the valve. What is gained? A handle can RELIABLY actuate a hydraulic valve.

NOW, that said, if there were some computer control of electronic valves that allowed for some complex, intelligent actuation of these valves, THEN there would be a reason for using them, so that the computer or other complex controller could actuate them. For hand operation of a valve, however, stick with the good ol' reliable, lever actuated valve and save yourself, money and headaches.

My $0.02,

Doc,
Here's the thing. We buy products everyday that are built with this technology. Every car, tractor, garden tractor, etc use robotics and CNC (Computer Numerical Control) to machine parts for and weld them together. That's all motors and solenoids run by electronics from the plasma cutter that cuts out the BH forms to the CNC that makes part after part for the fuel injectors, starters, etc. It's the way of the world and it works very well. It's all digital 0's and 1's that stream out of a computer not that different from the one that runs our tractors, it's all the same principle.
Don't throw out the baby with the bath water!

Rob
Don't blame the design itself for a poor application of it.

 

[Riverrat]

I fought this battle as well and opted for the 4120 e hydro. It has out preformed my expectations. There is efficient use of time because there is very little extra motion with direction change. The feel of the e hydro is better to me. The hst had a hard pedal and no cruise. It would get hard if you have lots of cutting or pasture work to do. Drive them the choice will be easy. These products have been out long enough to have the kinks worked out.
Rr

 

[MBDiagMan]

I'm glad to know that there are applications that do indeed work and people are happy with them. If you had gone through the ringer that I have with this technology, I fully expect you would eye it with suspicion just like I have.

Rob, the systems you describe are the uses of this that I spoke of as being justified, where computer or servo control is used to actuate a valve. In the case of a switch or lever that goes through amplifiers and drivers to actuate an electric valve, why not just use a mechanical lever.

I have lots of experience in the Programmable Logic Controller (PLC) and HMI world of automation as well as many years with all sorts of electronic instrumentation and controls. I understand the necessity of automation and it's many uses. At the same time I believe in the KISS principle. If you need a hand operated valve, nothing beats a lever and a valve. If you need an automated function, then a mechanically operated valve is not a workable option.

 

[Rob-D]

Rob, the systems you describe are the uses of this that I spoke of as being justified, where computer or servo control is used to actuate a valve. In the case of a switch or lever that goes through amplifiers and drivers to actuate an electric valve, why not just use a mechanical lever.

For the same reason RiverRat just gave. It's more precise, you can regulate much faster and better with electronics. Now we have electronic breaking on cars (ABS). Why? It's much more precise, pumps the pedal at the point of friction loss and keeps the car running straight on ice.

The cruse on an eHydro beats the pants off the mechanical cruse.

Rob

 

[BobRip]

Like most things if it has been on the market for several years and they have made a lot of them, then most likely they have fixed the problems. If it just came on the market (1st and 2nd year) there are many things that they have not learned yet or have time to fix.

 

[Rob-D]

Like most things if it has been on the market for several years and they have made a lot of them, then most likely they have fixed the problems. If it just came on the market (1st and 2nd year) there are many things that they have not learned yet or have time to fix.

Bob,
I'm an optimist, Nancy is a pessimist. Her argument is that she's never disappointed! It's a hard argument for me to dispute!

 

[MBDiagMan]

Everyone makes a very good point. It's great that such innovations are available for those who are willing to pay for them and pay to maintain them.

I drove quite successfully without issue for about 25 years before the wide use of anti-lock brakes. I continue to drive with manual windows, manual door locks, manual climate control and manual transmissions in the vehicles in which I can still get them. Cruise control is one of the modern gadgets that I am totally happy to pay for. I have had my hands in technology starting with repair of the Nike Hercules Missile system in 1969 on through until today in Industrial Automation so I am totally capable of maintaining such systems myself in most cases. I only say this to point out that I am NOT a technophobe.

I've driven well over a million, probably closer to two million, miles in my life, Most all of it in cars with manual transmissions and the like. Being a skin flint I prefer simplicity and economy over bells and whistles.

I FULLY understand that I am in the EXTREME minority. Most everyone prefers the complex as opposed to the simple and they are willing to pay for it. That's why they make so many variations of machines and vehicles. It's everyones right to pay money for what they choose. That's why there are so many different makers and options.

Live and let live.

My $0.02,