Bird
Rest in Peace
Re: What is yalls opinion on craftsman hand tools?
Mark, that's the first time I'd heard that about Sears; that's great.
Mark, that's the first time I'd heard that about Sears; that's great.
What is yalls opinion on craftsman hand tools??
- Thread starter snapper
- Start date
- Views: 4182
oldgrizzlybear
Bronze Member
I bought the Harbor Freight 3/4" metric set with the idea of replacing things as they break with better stuff. Its a little crude, but substantial. So far I haven't replaced anything. but it hasn't seen a lot of use.
Larry
Larry
Will_C
Veteran Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2002
- Messages
- 1,777
- Location
- Upstate N.Y.
- Tractor
- Kubota L3560, Toro 52" and 60" ZTRs, Kubota RTV 900
TresCrow summed it up very well, according to my friend Dave. He (Dave) is a full-time Nissan mechanic, and a Snap-On man as well. He has a good time poking fun at my Craftsman tools. However, he has tools in his hands 50 hours a week, and I hope I don't use them 50 hours a year /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif The professional brands are great, but if I had to buy them, it would be cheaped to hire my maintainence work done!!
Will
Will
TresCrows
Elite Member
One of the biggest insults among aviation mechanics is to call someone a "tractor mechanic", it can actually cause a fight. The only thing worse is calling a fellow "worse than a plumber" or a "hack". I, however, after casting dubious eyes on the fellows at the Kubota place, have decided that they are quite decent mechanics and do decent work except they haven't a clue as to proper setting of a cotter key. Other than that, I have decided that "tractor mechanics" are pretty good, I pointed this out to a few fellow mechanics and they just gave me an odd look. Plumbers still rank at the bottom /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif, they have lot's of pipe wrenches /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
I think Snapon could do themselves a favor if they would sell through retail outlets that did not have wheels on them and would introduce a high quality "hobbiest" grade tool to compete with Craftsman. Also, do yourself a favor if you like working on engines and stuff and go get some "Gear Wrenches" from Ace or Sears and Snapon has them also. Sears also has a knock off with a reversing ratchet lever but which is plastic and is quickly dissolved by Skydroil fluids--something most guys will never encounter. They cannot take a lot of torque but they are great in tight places and have a super fine action and are very thin also /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. J
I think Snapon could do themselves a favor if they would sell through retail outlets that did not have wheels on them and would introduce a high quality "hobbiest" grade tool to compete with Craftsman. Also, do yourself a favor if you like working on engines and stuff and go get some "Gear Wrenches" from Ace or Sears and Snapon has them also. Sears also has a knock off with a reversing ratchet lever but which is plastic and is quickly dissolved by Skydroil fluids--something most guys will never encounter. They cannot take a lot of torque but they are great in tight places and have a super fine action and are very thin also /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. J
bgott
Veteran Member
I bought a Craftsman set once to get back in business after being ripped off and wouldn't do it again. They have too many gaps in the coverage and too many duplications. They gave you six and twelve point sockets in just about every size, lots of numbers but not a lot of substance. For proffessional automotive use twelve point sockets are a waste of money, they wear out and slip easily. For the few times you use twelve point sockets I've just bought a socket when I needed it and saved the toolbox space and money for something important. Outside of a few headbolts you can usually use the twelve point head on a box wrench. For home or field use twelve point is fine, they could skip the six point sockets and give you practical stuff instead. A better range of extentions would really be nice. That would save you from having to buy extra stuff so they just keep on throwing extra sockets into the set to make the pictures look pretty and the numbers look good. The quality is good, I bought Craftsman end wrenches rather than spend the ungodly amount that Snap- On gets for theirs. I regularly do the double combination wrench trick and haven't broken one yet.
knucklehead
Platinum Member
Bird - isn't it nice? And I don't notice them crowing all over about it, either. They could, justly.
Griz - <font color="blue">a little crude, but substantial</font> - I just found my epitaph!
Will - I agree. I always try to get good stuff; heavy duty power tools instead of department store brands, etc.. When it comes to cutting firewood or doing home repair, I don't want to spend a lot of time fiddling with my tools. If you want to scare me away from a tool, label it as homeowner or hobbyist grade. That's also why I bought a tractor and not a lawn & garden unit. I can relate to Tres and others' comments - but it seems I have had decent success with what they consider homeowner grade sockets, etc.. I wonder if I started doing regular wrench work if I'd quickly relegate the Craftsman stuff to the cellar for home repair. That's why I am asking about 3/4" drive - because they are going to get used. But again, the Sears $200 set seems like the "high end" for me.
JR - 'been a long time since I tried to twang your strings, huh? I appreciate your expertise, and I like reading your descriptions of work. I wish Snap On would do an expanded retail business, too. I think the same quality could be retained, and the prices would go way down. NAPA has Snap On stuff, don't they? Or do they just advertise and you have to buy from the travelling salesman?
When you say gear wrenches, do you mean those ratcheting closed end wrenches? My Dad is very into those - I think he has about 6 sets - garage, cellar, shed, RV, truck, and onboard tractor - he can't pass one up on sale. Almost as good as my fine pipe wrench.
Is the bolt end supposed to turn with the nut? - I can put those right back in, huh - they're just a little necked down in that one spot right there.
/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Griz - <font color="blue">a little crude, but substantial</font> - I just found my epitaph!
Will - I agree. I always try to get good stuff; heavy duty power tools instead of department store brands, etc.. When it comes to cutting firewood or doing home repair, I don't want to spend a lot of time fiddling with my tools. If you want to scare me away from a tool, label it as homeowner or hobbyist grade. That's also why I bought a tractor and not a lawn & garden unit. I can relate to Tres and others' comments - but it seems I have had decent success with what they consider homeowner grade sockets, etc.. I wonder if I started doing regular wrench work if I'd quickly relegate the Craftsman stuff to the cellar for home repair. That's why I am asking about 3/4" drive - because they are going to get used. But again, the Sears $200 set seems like the "high end" for me.
JR - 'been a long time since I tried to twang your strings, huh? I appreciate your expertise, and I like reading your descriptions of work. I wish Snap On would do an expanded retail business, too. I think the same quality could be retained, and the prices would go way down. NAPA has Snap On stuff, don't they? Or do they just advertise and you have to buy from the travelling salesman?
When you say gear wrenches, do you mean those ratcheting closed end wrenches? My Dad is very into those - I think he has about 6 sets - garage, cellar, shed, RV, truck, and onboard tractor - he can't pass one up on sale. Almost as good as my fine pipe wrench.
Is the bolt end supposed to turn with the nut? - I can put those right back in, huh - they're just a little necked down in that one spot right there.
/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
TresCrows
Elite Member
"When you say gear wrenches, do you mean those ratcheting closed end wrenches? My Dad is very into those - I think he has about 6 sets - garage, cellar, shed, RV, truck, and onboard tractor - he can't pass one up on sale. Almost as good as my fine pipe wrench."
Nope, GearWrench is a brand name and it is a combination wrench. The closed end has a fine racheting mechanism. Nope, not those things we call "dogbones". They are worthless /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif.
I find Knuckleheads comments about 6 vs 12 pt interesting. In aviation 6 pt sockets are rarely used, most guys don't even have any. I never use 6 pt even at home unless I need high torque on large bolts and nuts. The only 6 point socket in my roll around at work is a 6 pt Champion sparkplug socket. Several guys who were once auto guys before getting an A&P have some 6 pt stuff, I don't ever see them use it though. I have some here at home. You are right about the duplication in Craftman tool sets, a lot of pieces but no substance /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. Also, their tool boxes fall apart when used Professionally but I do have a Craftsman Pro box here at home and it is good quality.
Well, I do think Snapon could offer a "hobbiest" tool set. You could call it what you want but it could be priced like Craftsman or just a tad higher with the Pro touches of Snapons Pro tools. I didn't see "hobbiest" as an insult when virtually everything Craftsman sells is "hobbiest" grade or worse "handyman" grade and folks seem to do fine with them including me. Y'all really didn't think those Sears tools were really equal to Snapon or Mac Pro tools did ya, and yeah, those Craftsman sockets are not all that good, too loose, to thick and they wear out fast and don't grip well /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. Thing about Sears is you can walk in with a few hundred bucks and leave with a sack of tools that will fix your lawnmower, tractor, car, strip the threads off your bicycles and do most of what ya need and if you leave it out in the field and then run over it with the Brushcutter and mangle it you can bring it back to Sears and argue with them till they give you another free. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
J
Nope, GearWrench is a brand name and it is a combination wrench. The closed end has a fine racheting mechanism. Nope, not those things we call "dogbones". They are worthless /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif.
I find Knuckleheads comments about 6 vs 12 pt interesting. In aviation 6 pt sockets are rarely used, most guys don't even have any. I never use 6 pt even at home unless I need high torque on large bolts and nuts. The only 6 point socket in my roll around at work is a 6 pt Champion sparkplug socket. Several guys who were once auto guys before getting an A&P have some 6 pt stuff, I don't ever see them use it though. I have some here at home. You are right about the duplication in Craftman tool sets, a lot of pieces but no substance /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. Also, their tool boxes fall apart when used Professionally but I do have a Craftsman Pro box here at home and it is good quality.
Well, I do think Snapon could offer a "hobbiest" tool set. You could call it what you want but it could be priced like Craftsman or just a tad higher with the Pro touches of Snapons Pro tools. I didn't see "hobbiest" as an insult when virtually everything Craftsman sells is "hobbiest" grade or worse "handyman" grade and folks seem to do fine with them including me. Y'all really didn't think those Sears tools were really equal to Snapon or Mac Pro tools did ya, and yeah, those Craftsman sockets are not all that good, too loose, to thick and they wear out fast and don't grip well /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. Thing about Sears is you can walk in with a few hundred bucks and leave with a sack of tools that will fix your lawnmower, tractor, car, strip the threads off your bicycles and do most of what ya need and if you leave it out in the field and then run over it with the Brushcutter and mangle it you can bring it back to Sears and argue with them till they give you another free. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
J
Bird
Rest in Peace
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( "When you say gear wrenches, do you mean those ratcheting closed end wrenches? )</font>
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Nope, GearWrench is a brand name and it is a combination wrench )</font>
Someone might want to look at this site which is just one of many sites that show GearWrenches and maybe I'm confused because it looks to me like "GearWrench" is one of "those ratcheting closed end wrenches." What am I missing here?
And I, too, am one of those who only uses 12 point sockets and wrenches when I have a square nut, or don't have a 6 point that fits. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Of course, I don't work on airplanes either. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Nope, GearWrench is a brand name and it is a combination wrench )</font>
Someone might want to look at this site which is just one of many sites that show GearWrenches and maybe I'm confused because it looks to me like "GearWrench" is one of "those ratcheting closed end wrenches." What am I missing here?
And I, too, am one of those who only uses 12 point sockets and wrenches when I have a square nut, or don't have a 6 point that fits. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Of course, I don't work on airplanes either. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
TresCrows
Elite Member
That is the GearWrench Bird. Yes, thanks /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. The GearWrench really is cool /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. I think Knucklehead was referring to the close end ratcheting wrenches that have a reversing tang and double close ends with different sizes. These have the shape of a dogbone biscuit and thus we call them dogbones. Sears has bunches of them. They are pretty useless.
The reason 6 pts are not preferred in aviation is because much of the work is done in close spaces, the fasteners tend to be small and the torques low. Also the 6 pt sockets tend to be very thick and simply will not fit in many places thin wall 12 pt Snapons will. Also, many nuts used in aviation applications have more than 6 points on them such as turbine nuts and "Jap" nuts which are all metal self locking nuts. A 6 pt will not fit onto them. There is a lot of specialized hardware! The 6 pt combo wrenches and close ends are undesireable because you have to take such a large arc to get to the next flat which makes them diffucult to use in close spaces and since we don't use hardware over and over and over the fasteners never get rounded over enough to slip on a 12 pt. Yeah, if you been using pliers on them they will slip on a 12 pt. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
It is raining so I am marooned. J
The reason 6 pts are not preferred in aviation is because much of the work is done in close spaces, the fasteners tend to be small and the torques low. Also the 6 pt sockets tend to be very thick and simply will not fit in many places thin wall 12 pt Snapons will. Also, many nuts used in aviation applications have more than 6 points on them such as turbine nuts and "Jap" nuts which are all metal self locking nuts. A 6 pt will not fit onto them. There is a lot of specialized hardware! The 6 pt combo wrenches and close ends are undesireable because you have to take such a large arc to get to the next flat which makes them diffucult to use in close spaces and since we don't use hardware over and over and over the fasteners never get rounded over enough to slip on a 12 pt. Yeah, if you been using pliers on them they will slip on a 12 pt. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
It is raining so I am marooned. J
Bird
Rest in Peace
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( the work is done in close spaces, the fasteners tend to be small and the torques low )</font>
Yep, that does make a difference. I had 3 good helicopter mechanics working for me at one time and know they were very particular about their torque wrenches, safety wiring, and lots of other things, but since it was only for a few months and 30 years ago, I didn't recall any preference for 6 point vs. 12 point sockets. From what you say, I'm sure they were probably the same way. I learned only a tiny bit about aviation mechanics, perhaps through a process of osmosis, because I just trusted those guys and my main concerns were the budget and the use of the helicopters when they were in the air. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Yep, that does make a difference. I had 3 good helicopter mechanics working for me at one time and know they were very particular about their torque wrenches, safety wiring, and lots of other things, but since it was only for a few months and 30 years ago, I didn't recall any preference for 6 point vs. 12 point sockets. From what you say, I'm sure they were probably the same way. I learned only a tiny bit about aviation mechanics, perhaps through a process of osmosis, because I just trusted those guys and my main concerns were the budget and the use of the helicopters when they were in the air. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
