What is your top RPM limit?

hbaird · Jul 22, 2005

I have a LM-200LE. My idle is 900 RPM and it limits at 2250 RPM, about the middle of the green band. A 284LE I saw recently revved up to 2800 RPM. I know the Y380 and the Y385 are different engines. I would like to know what other 20X and 22X Jinmas with the Y380 engine top out at.
Thanks for replying,
Harold

hbaird · Jul 22, 2005

I found, new to me, the Yangdong Product web site. It lists the Y380 as having power out of 20.5 KW, at 3000RPM, for 1 hour.. The max torque is listed at 71.8 N.m at 2100RPM. My conversion from KW to HP(metric) is 20.5KW/.736KW = 27.85 HP at 3000RPM. I found the Y380 listed somewhere online at 14.7KW output, which converts to 19.97HP using the 736w for the conversion. This fits the EPA label on my engine but RPM is not specified. 71.8 N.m / 1.356 = 52.94 ft.LB of torque. That would give 21.17 HP at 2100 RPM. I have no reason think these are gross rating instead of net like the big three advertise. I have never seen an industrial grade engine rated at gross levels. I am really curious about the truth on all of this. If I can find a local PTO Dino for a reasonable price I may test it. Please check my math and feel free to question my assumptions and conclusions. It is way to hot and humid here for me to cut brush today.
Harold

JINMA224XR · Jul 22, 2005

I found, new to me, the Yangdong Product web site. It lists the Y380 as having power out of 20.5 KW, at 3000RPM, for 1 hour.. 

Hey Harold,

According to the tack on my Jinma 224, my Y380T engine is turning about 2350 at the edge of the green zone.

May I turn mine up to 3000rpm? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

For a diesel engine, 2350 sounds pretty good to me, but if 3000rpm won't over rev the engine, then maybe I should turn mine up to get more Horse Power. If I could get 25HP out of mine, that would be nice, but I don't want to take a chance in the engine coming apart.

Get your tractors running &
Have a nice day,
Joe /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

hbaird · Jul 22, 2005

It only says will run that hard for 1 hour. I think 2500 RPM peak would be a compromise if you only used it for short bursts. I calculate 24.26 HP at 2500. I am not a diesel design engineer so don't trust my opinions. I suspect the change from the old 2 cylinder to 3 cylinder caused more HP to be available but they detuned to limit. The Y385 engine is some 20 LB heavier for a reason. According to the Yangdong web site the Y380 is a new design by Ricardo Consulting Engineering Plc. No computer controlled injection, but overall a very modern engine. Mechanical direct injection is good enough for me. All the car problems I have had in the last 5 years have been electronic/computer based.
Harold

JINMA224XR · Jul 22, 2005

It only says will run that hard for 1 hour. I think 2500 RPM peak would be a compromise if you only used it for short bursts. I calculate 24.26 HP at 2500. 

Hey Harold,

I think that I will just stay in the green zone on mine. It may very well be putting out 22hp, as several have said, heck I don't know. The Engine plate says as you have stated, 14.7KW @ 2300 r/min.

On diesels,, the higher rpms can do an engine in pretty quick. They are just not made to turn high rpms. On big truck diesels, 2350 is about the most that I have encountered. And on most big truck diesel engines, they are governed well below that now.

Also bear in mind, that the higher rpms, may result in higher oil pressures, that may or may not find an outlet for leakage.

I'm wondering though, if you have a Y380T engine, as it shows on the engine plate, whether you would be safe to turn yours up to the edge of the green zone, without doing any harm to your engine, transmission or tractor. I just don't know the answer, but it sure would be nice if we had more technical answers comeing from YangDong and Jinma.

If you haven't allready, take a look at your engine plate and see what rpm, the stated hp is at. If it is 2300, then I would think that maybe you would be safe, but still not sure.

Get your tractors running &
Have a ncie day,
Joe /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Boltonpower · Jul 22, 2005

Chinese engines derive their power ratings from the duty
cycle required by the application. A TY395 can be rated at
anywhere 30 Hp and 47 Hp depending on the goveror setting.
As generator application requires a higher duty cycle than
a marine engine, than a tractor engine etc. Maximum specific
power output per fuel quantity (thernal efficiency) is down in
the 1,500 1,800 rpm range. Spinning one at 3,000 will cost
more in fuel per power and obviously shorten it's life. The
Y380 is almost exactly the same as the Y385 just 80mm bore
instead of 85mm. Most of the parts are interchangabele.
The ratings are usually denoted on the engine plate with a trailing
Alpha. TY395T or Q spec a different speed and power rating
for the same engine.

Graham

greg_g · Jul 22, 2005

Harold, the information on that website actually does tell the story. But it's useless to you, if you don't understand what it's saying. To expand on Graham's input, a single diesel engine can be tuned to output a wide power range - depending upon the application requirements. This range can be controlled basically by which governor is used, by which injectors are used, and by the timing of the fuel delivery.

By personal example, I have the FeiDong 395T engine in my KM454. It's rated at 33.1 KW @ 2500 rpm, uses a T-300-1250Z governor, and is timed at 22 BTDC. There are three other variants:
The 395T1 puts out 29.4 KW @ 2400 rpm with a -1200z governor, timed at 22 BTDC
the 395C puts out 24.0 KW @ 2000 rpm with a -1000z governor, timed at 20 BTDC
the 395D puts out 20.0 KW @ 1500 rpm with a -750z governor, timed at 18 BTDC

The info you found merely indicates that the basic Y380 is also capable of a power spread, between perhaps 18 and 28 hp depending upon how it's configured.

Consider that, before anybody decides to "turn up" their engines.

//greg//

hbaird · Jul 22, 2005

I find thermal efficiency is most always at torque peak for gasoline and diesel, two stroke and four stroke. Its the point the drag on the piston for the intake stroke gets higher fast. More power is needed to get the air in for combustion and torque output starts to decrease. Horsepower continues to rise for a while then falls off as well. Your point on rating by use is well taken. Lower rating for continuous to higher for intermittent. I would suspect tractors are closer to generators for most agricultural service. I would like to see your source on use versus power rating, it would be good to understand for the Y380. The factory charts don't show the Y395. For my tractor use I don't need anything longer than 10 minutes top sustained high horse power use. Brush cutting in the woods is a short run and backup situation. I am retired and rarely work more than an hour or two on the tractor at a time. I'm thinking more in terms of getting the blade up to speed quicker than the 3 seconds it takes now. The 284 I saw recently would hit the green in about a second going to 2800RPM. I suspect the governor controls rate changes and speed. If it will run an hour at 3000RPM it will turn 2500 for short bursts with out blowing up. I have no need to run above the green ever under continous load. The brush cutter is the only high RPM , 2250 RPM, application I have. Dirt work is fine at 1500 to 1800 RPM. I can't react quick enough to drag my boxblade faster and I have plenty of torque now at those speeds.
Harold

hbaird · Jul 22, 2005

Thanks Greg for your ever valued input. I ran thru the numbers you gave and found an anomaly on the 1500 RPM values. The torque has to go way up, even higher than all the rest to make that much HP. The 2500 RPM rating for your tractor requires 94.4 foot pounds. The 1500 RPM configuration requires 95 foot pounds. With the injector timing retarded 4 degrees how can that be? I know while going from well retarded to spot on the torque always got higher. The response is the same as ignition timing on a gasoline engine. You saying they delay peak combustion pressure well past TDC to cut the power out. I was wrong in my assumption tractors would be detuned more than other applications. Your numbers show your engine is the highest power level and maximum combustion advance. You want peak pressure at TDC for max power. Something else you fellows might explain for me. When I am at normal operating temperature and go to idle the temp starts dropping. I haven't idled long enough to see how far it will go, but it doesn't warm up much if any at idle either since I changed the injector timing.
Harold

JINMA224XR · Jul 22, 2005

I would like to know what other 20X and 22X Jinmas with the Y380 engine top out at.


Hey Harold,

On the engine plate, it says that my engine is a Y380T.

Is your engine a Y380 or Y380T?

Since Greg's last post, I am wondering if we have the same governor's. I have long wondered what my actual HP is.

This heat is a real killer, and I sure am glad that our tractors have a canopy for shade.

Get your tractors running &
Have a nice day,
Joe /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif