What kind of welder should I buy

[Sully2]

I have a Hobart 225 amp AC stick welder and for all my steel projects this works just fine. Something to keep in mind is that a stick welder will do fine outside when it is blowing and a Mig or Tig just won't keep the gas shield in a wind. If you weld with anything inside you will need a way to get the weld smoke out of the area, it smells bad and is bad for your lungs. So, inside with a fan for any kind of machine or outside for stick either AC or AC/DC.
Suggest you take a welding course before you buy with the express purpose of trying/learning on all 3 basic welding machines, MIG TIG and STICK...then make a decision.

good luck

If "flux cored wire" is used with the wire fed maching..outside welding is no problem. If you can weld it..inside; outside..even upside down..with a stick welder...you can do the same with the appropiate sized wire fed machine.

And its STILL a lot easier to do with a wire fed machine!

 

[gordon21]

Things are starting to come together.

I looked at at a Hobart model 187 MIG welder today. It replaces the 180 by having a new 7 position voltage switch. $650 for the welder w/cart and another $100 for a good helmet and a couple rolls of wire. This comes in almost exactly on the menatl budget I created. Bumping up to 200+ amps seems to raise the price considerably.

Can I run this off from a 5500 watt generator for remote welding? The generator has a 40 amp breaker on the 240 output. Are there any issues with using generator power versus power from a fully grounded source like the utility company. I noticed the plug on the Hobart had only 3 pins. Why no 4th pin? I though all modern 240 installations had to have 4 pins now. I see stove and dryer plugs with the 4th pin in the elctrical section of stores.

 

[MadReferee]

Can I run this off from a 5500 watt generator for remote welding? The generator has a 40 amp breaker on the 240 output. Are there any issues with using generator power versus power from a fully grounded source like the utility company. I noticed the plug on the Hobart had only 3 pins. Why no 4th pin? I though all modern 240 installations had to have 4 pins now. I see stove and dryer plugs with the 4th pin in the elctrical section of stores.

It should run just fine from the generator. The welder should have a 3-prong NEMA 6-50P plug on it and your recepticle will have to be a NEMA 6-50R. Your instruction manual should have wiring instructions for the recepticle. If not it's 2 hot legs plus ground.

 

[shaley]

4 pins are only required on 220v appliances that have a 110v outlet. A welder may not even be considered an appliance under NEC I'd have to check.

 

[jmcalli]

The term AC welding is often misunderstood. It is not using alternating current. It is in fact direct current welding with the electrode and surface changing polarity (DC - electrode negative / DC - electrode positive) = DCEN / DCEP - this IS NOT AC current being used for welding.

Not to pick a fight here, but how would you define "AC?" Wouldn't it be exactly what you describe - the electrode and surface changing polarity? I'm not sure what other type of AC exists.

In fact, AC welding does use an alternating current. In contrast to DC, AC "alternates," or changes polarity, or reverses the direction of electron flow, nominally 60 times a second.

Welding DC transformer/rectifier power supplies use diodes to block half of the alternating cycle and "rectify" the AC waveform. Thus, either positive or negative direct current flows. The electrode and the work keep the same polarity and the electrons flow in one direction only.

 

[fabrej]

Gordon21,

I welded all of the bucket hitch. I just didn't paint the T handle.

Attached is another one of my mini projects that I welded with the simple Hobart 140.

 

[jmcalli]

4 pins are only required on 220v appliances that have a 110v outlet. A welder may not even be considered an appliance under NEC I'd have to check.

My antique Dialarc HF has a 220V primary power supply that uses a 3-wire cable (2 hots and a ground). It has a built-in 110V accessory outlet on the front panel that I plug my water cooler into. Granted, it's kind of old but I don't think it predates NEC.

 

[twigpig]

I am not an electrician. But I played one when I built my house. From what I learned when I wired my house 220 appliances need a neutral now for the functions that only use 110. In the past those functions (timers and lights) used so little electricity that they just used the ground as the neutral. While the ground and the neutral are bonded in the main panel they have different functions. Often when you install a new stove it has an option of bonding the neutral to the ground at the appliance for older houses without the neutral wire from the panel. Those ground wires are pretty substantial so there was little worry of heat build up. I am not commenting on how safe it is, those NEC regs are made for a reason, but it is done. If you aren't using 110 in the appliance/welder you really don't need the neutral. All of the current for 220 is going back on the paired hot wires. I hope I didn't confuse you. If I'm wrong I hope I get corrected quickly. When I say 110 I mean 110/120 and the same goes for 220 for 220/240. Along with reading a lot of books the guys over on the electrical forum of "The Garden Web" helped me understand enough to wire two 200 amp main panels with generator lockouts and two sub-panels and pass very diligent electrical inspectors. I like diligent inspectors, they help keep my family safe.
I am also getting interested in welders. I was reading some of those boards mentioned above and it sounded like people are liking the new Lincoln 180 MIG. Many are anticipating the new Miller 180 MIG. I can't justify getting one yet. Those Miller 210s seem to hold their value as much as a tractor.

 

[AlanB]

Gordon, sounds like you have hit on something that suits you. I personally would go Miller or Lincoln but the Hobarts are fine machines as well (and owned by Miller) but I think you will get years and years of satisfaction out of that machine.

Does it come set up as a true Mig? (Gas Valve installed) or is it set for Flux core then you have to add a "kit" of some kind? I personally much prefer mig over Flux core, but again, it is preference thing.

You need to also visit your local gas supplier if you plan on running Mig and see how they handle the bottles (Lease, rent, buy) and what the costs will be. I would run the C25 on that smaller machine. That can run a bit extra onto the tab, but in my opinion, particularly while trying to learn blind, it will be much easier and clearer to see what you are doing, then when you have a good feel, spool up the flux core and try that.

Good luck, it is very satisfying to be able to do those projects that need welding around the house.

 

[gordon21]

The list is getting more refined. How does this sound for an initial purchase? You guys let me know what I am missing. Nothing is definite yet.

Hobart 187 MIG welder package that comes with cart and gas valve.
1-8" spool of aluminum wire
1-8" spool of solid wire
1-8" spool of flux core wire
1-small tank of C25
1-small tank of pure argon for the aluminum
extra tips
Self darkening helmet
Couple of triangle shaped magnet gizmos to hold steel pieces
Large chunk of plate steel to use as a work surface


I read a 200 page welding basics book last night. It mentions that a good beginner work table should be a large chunk of old plate steel. Nowhere in the book does it mention how and where to ground the piece you are working on. Does the work table itself have to be grounded? If so, how and where?
Needless to say I am concerned about 30-180 amps running around and me not having everything safe. Would a person get shocked if they touched the work table while welding? I am assuming the work piece will be clamped to the table to keep it from moving.

What effect does the welding have on a tractor that is insulated from the ground by it's tires. Do you just hook the ground cable to it and let-er-rip? Any special precautions to protect the tractor's electronics or diesel?