What RPM do you use for non PTO work?

   / What RPM do you use for non PTO work? #1  

jeepinator

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
263
Tractor
JD 3520, JD X739
As a person who has no experience on a tractor, yet just bought one, I'm not sure about a few probably obvious things.
One of those being what RPM to use.
I am thinking mainly in regards to loader work and using a box scraper. So far I have tried everything from about 1400 to 2400 RPM.
Perhaps the answer is just "whatever works for you". And that's a perfectly OK answer. I just have no clue!
And mostly I have been cruising around in B range, but I tried A and C for comparison. Seems A might be for tilling and C for just getting somewhere.
For reference, I have a 3520.

Thanks!
 
   / What RPM do you use for non PTO work? #2  
Others with more experience than I may have different opinions. However, my belief is that if your working your diesel, it should be in the optimum power band regardless of if it is PTO or something else. I run my tractor at 2200 for any work I do. If I'm just getting from point A-B then I let it come down to 1000-1200, this allows it to warm before working and to cool after working.
 
   / What RPM do you use for non PTO work? #3  
On my Grandpa's 1951 Allis Chalmers D5 bulldozer we have always run it WOT when working. I have always thought that diesels were designed to be run hard. I'll be watching this discussion closely as I have a 4010 on the way. These new engines are a world away from the old oil burners.
 
   / What RPM do you use for non PTO work? #4  
<font color="red"> Perhaps the answer is just "whatever works for you"</font>

That would be my responce, It just depends on what I am doing at the time...
 
   / What RPM do you use for non PTO work? #5  
I have a JD4410. It seems to need to run at 2200 RPM for loader work and 2500 RPM for PTO (540 RPM) work. Transport speed varies with conditions. That being said, these speeds are decidedly different than my kubota L275 which was gear driven. The hydrstatic drive tractors seem to need higher engine RPM's to keep the hydrolic pressure up to where the rest of the parts need it in order to perform properly. JMO
 
   / What RPM do you use for non PTO work? #6  
hi jeepinator,

I usually run whichever rpm takes me to the transport speed I need to keep the pedal down;

1800-2000 rpm for box blade to give the loadmatch a "window" to kick in before engine bogs to 1650 (max torque)... also for loader work, unless I need more hydraulic flow to break out or lift the bucket (or 3pt )

2100-2600 for shredding, depending on material.

In the interest of economy and hearing protection, I try and avoid mor rpm's than needed to get thw job done... the loadmatch is always on to adjust for need anyway... would need more of a cushion for bogging down (or better reflexes?)without it.

Maybe I took a long time to say, "whatever rpm I need at the moment" (?) /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Happy tractoring! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
   / What RPM do you use for non PTO work? #7  
Here's my "take" on this. I have a Kubota 5030HST that redines at 2,700. I use it in my tree business, so I tend to do pretty much the same task with it day in and day out - moving logs and brush, all loader and 3ph lift work, and I have never once used the PTO. (Thinking of getting a PTO cement mixer for Margaritas and Pina Coladas though).

I tend to run it between 2,300 and 2,000, just to vary the engine speed a little for the sake of the engine. 2300 seems to be the sweet spot, and I have a feeling this is about where max. torque occurs on the torque chart. In fact, come to think of it, this is probably a darn good rule of thumb. Look on the torque chart for your engine, and hover around there. Why the heck not? Who needs extra RPM's without any additional torque? Hmm, just thought of who might. You'll probably get some extra HP by going with higher revs, for when you need HP even more than torque.

As far as idling down for tranport - I suppose that's OK, but I always keep the revs up for transport. of course, I have the hydro tranny to consider, and word is they like the higher hydraulic flows that they get at the higher rpms, so that clinched it for me. For gear tractors, I'd stil have to say keep the revs up pretty good. It just seems that speeds near 1000 are just too "luggy" for a diesel. Keep that baby thumping I say. And here's an interesting (IMHO) thought/observation I had a while ago about transport speeds and rpms. A friend of mine was telling me that near-idle speed was the way to go - told me for the zillionth time about "the farmer next door" /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif who knows EVERYTHING about tractors (he doesn't), and ALWAYS transports his tractors at close to low idle, to save wear and tear on the engine supposedly. Sounds to me like he lugs the cra& out of them. I got to thinking, "well your engine has to turn over X number of times to get from point A to point B, depending on what gear you're in. So does it really make much difference whether they're done slowly, over a longer period of time, or faster, for a shorter period of time?
And if you're running at slower rpm's (for gear tractors anyway, i'd have to think about hydros), you're probably going to be in a lower gear at the lower rpm's, so you're actually using MORE total engine revolutions to get between the two points. AND it just took you longer to get there (time is money). AND your engine is going to be happier operating (as another poster said here I think) at with a little bit of load on it.

There's also an excellent (long) thread here on lugging diesels. Lugging diesels = bad or newfangled myth? Nine pages of REALLY good stuff. Bottom line? Lugging bad, letting the engine do its thing in a nice part of the power band good.

On <font color="blue"> And mostly I have been cruising around in B range, but I tried A and C for comparison. Seems A might be for tilling and C for just getting somewhere. </font>

On the Kubota it's L/M/H. I spend 90% of my time in M, 8% in H, and maybe 2% in L. As you, H for transport (and carrying logs on a paved surface), L for dragging heavy logs and trees/limbs, or budging something heavy with the front grapple, and M for everything else.

There's another must-read thread regarding engine care called To idle or shut-off: Which is best?. What I took away from that thread and have put into practice are to start my engine at near idle, keep it there for about 3 -5 seconds, raise it to about 1500 and keep it there til I get to about 1/4 of operating temperature, then raise it up to about 1800-2000 and take off at a moderate pace to warm the engine up more quickly than if I just sat there idling. Warm engine = efficient, clean running engine. I don't do any real work until it's fully warmed up, but I see no downside to letting it warm up more quickly. It's being well-lubed, so who cares if it's not up to operating temperature yet, it soon (er) will be.

As to "idle or shut off" when you have to stop for a while: anything over a few minutes, just shut it off. Try not to let it cool down too much before you start using it again though (weather and time dependent), so this can affect the length of time you choose to let it idle instead. (Think Alaska pipeline).
Diesel engines at idle experience inefficient combustion and resulting unburned fuel migrating into the crankcase, sludge buildup, cylinder washing and a whole bunch of other nasty stuff. Let 'em rev a little, it's what they live for. As I said, my "idle" speed of choice is 1500.

So let her rip, and have fun! Sounds like a great machine, I came this close to getting a 4710.

John D.
 
   / What RPM do you use for non PTO work?
  • Thread Starter
#8  
Thanks all for the info.
The operator's manual says to let the machine idle for 2-3 minutes before shutdown. I am not sure if this is a unique instruction for the turbo models or not... but old school philosophy on turbos is that you don't want them spooling down at full temp.
(not that I am an expert at anything, turbos included)

As I get better at the controls, and the process of thinking about what to do is slowly going away, I find myself liking the higher RPMs more. I am currently moving some pretty big piles of stump grindings with the loader (and then smoothing out the mess with the scraper). The area is scattered with small fir trees and I have to do a lot of tight manuevering. I don't really have anything to compare my tractor to, but I sure do like the controllability! At first I kept the RPMs low because I was routinely making mistakes and I didn't want to drive off the cliff I am dumping the debris over /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
I have been amazed how smooth this thing is even with the RPMs up over 2000 and going forward, back, forward, back.
I just didn't want to be a hot rod or abusive in any way, so this is why I asked.
I also found that when attempting for that super full bucket, that higher RPMs help alot. Kinda like a dive-and-lift thing. You don't get enough speed with low RPM or enough power to break the bucket out.
Kind of off-topic, but I am really, really liking my tractor. It's far louder than I expected, but also more easy to drive than I expected. Power wise, it's about what I expected... but I am kinda kicking myself for just not getting the 3720. I think John Deere is making a mistake by having the base model 3520 NOT eHydro and the base model 3720 eHydro. It looks like a 3k difference (list), but really it's about 2k if eHydro is what you want.
 
   / What RPM do you use for non PTO work? #9  
Just to add to your turbo question...

The reason to allow a turbo to idle for 2-3 min after working it is that when you shut it down, there is no lube to it. The turbo spinning in the 100000rpm range hot with no lube would drasticly reduce life. Its always best to let your diesel, especially turbo, idle for a little while(3-5min) after working it to cool down.
 
   / What RPM do you use for non PTO work? #10  
With a turbo, I'd definitely put synthetic oil in it. Synthetic will take the hot turbo bearings without cooking so easily. Still a good idea to idle it down before shutting it down.

I run my engine to not strain it. Top speed is about 3100-3200 on a 4010. I run it at those speeds (whatever the 540 rpm line is) for PTO work and near those speeds when working it hard with the loader. When just running around, with my back blade, carryall, etc. I usually run it at around 2200 rpm minimum. On it, this is the speed at which it'll lift the bucket and 3 pt and travel around up and down hill without straining. This speed will vary depending on the tractor engine design.

Ralph
 

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