What should I do about my CT225?

[Mrb94]

First off, since I know that my Salesman requents this site, I want to make it perfectly clear that I harbor no ill feelings towards him as he has been great to deal with - my beef is clearly with the dealer and with Bobcat. He's the type of guy that I could hang out at a bar playing pool with. Here's my story, and I appologize in advance for being long-winded:

I attended a Ride and Drive day on May 23rd after doing research for the past couple of years into various tractor brands. The free loader and rebates made this tractor brand very tempting! Long story short, I purchased one of the CT225's they had on the lot that day, and put down a $1,000 deposit as I wanted a Bob-Tach style loader and they did not have one. I also ordered a ballast box and pallet forks for it. At the time, I had no idea how long it would take to get the components (dealer obviously didn't either, but that blame squarely rests with Bobcat). The tractor that I bought was explained to me as being a "demo", as it had 20 hours on it - so the dealer did throw in the 50 hour filters because of that.

When the end of June got here, and I still did not have a tractor, my Salesman dropped off a CT235 for me to use. On July 1st, my tractor was finally delivered, minus the ballast box. The first thing that I noticed (after getting the big grin off my face to finally have the tractor home) is that the chains on the trailer had just scratched up my brand new loader arms. Nothing that a little paint can't fix - right? The second thing that I noticed is that the owners manual was for a CT230. (how I wish I had that tractor instead, but I digress) The third thing I notice is how the area around the loader joystick had overspray from where the dealer tried to cover over the rust, and other areas also had rust. My Salesman did let me know that the dealer repainted my hood becuase of rust, but there are many areas where the paint is turning orange. From reading other threads, I'm convinced that the paint quality on these tractors is horendous, either that, or the tractor is trying to turn itself into a Kioti. I don't want to hear one word that it's because the tractor had been sitting out - it's supposed to be a new tractor!

It was probably a big mistake to let me use a CT235 prior as I noticed that it had more power than mine and that the hydro did not whine - mine whines all the time. For those of you who may have followed another thread that I wrote in, my desire for this tractor was to be able to lift pallets of pavers and retaining wall stone. Couldn't attempt to do that, though, since I had no weight to put on the back-end, plus I noticed that my tractor could not lift the front end off the ground unless the clutch peddle was pushed in. I told my dealer that something was wrong and he came to pick it up to have their Mechanic take a look at it. He also asked why would I ever need to pick the front end of the tractor up. I guess because it should be able to?

Anyway, they found that my tractor "creeped" whenever the peddle was released, which was causing the hydraulics to not get all the oil, and adjusted the linkage to make it better. The loader will now pick the front end up, and the ballast box finally arrived after an almost 3 month wait. So, I was finally happy to have a chance to see if the loader would lift my pallets. Mind you, I'm aware of it's rated capacity, but thought that I would at least be able to get it off the ground enough to move them. I'm sorry to report that it would not even start to budge a pallet. I am not mad about that - just a little sad since I now have to split the pallets.

Part of the reason that I wish I had the tractor that goes with my manual is because I have now found that I have an older version of the tractor. There are other threads that have addressed the 25hp versus 27hp for these tractors, but the literature that I have for the tractor all specified that it was supposed to be 27hp. Guess what - as luck would have it, I have the 1.299L, 18.6 kW engine instead of the 1.4L, 20.1 kW engine that I thought I was getting. After using the CT235 with its 34hp instead of my 25hp, and knowing the weight it not much greater, I would say that my tractor is under-powered. The extra 2hp would certainly help, and the tractor that goes with my manual would be even better!

Looking at the franchise website, they have a 2009 CT225 listed, that if the $3,500 rebates were still in effect, would only be $126 more than what I paid for a year (probably more since the engine sticker says 2007) old demo unit. So, to come to the end of this long thread, what would you do? I am happy with the Bobcat tractor brand, but don't like the fact that I have rusting paint (another thread said this was addressed on the new units) and an engine that is not what I thought I bought. How does one go about undoing a deal? I've had the tractor for almost 2 months and have put about 15 hours on it. This tractor is supposed to be my last one, but if its underpowered, and will be rusted in a few years, what should I do?

 

[gaberelli]

First things first, you need to have this exact conversation with the guy that sold you the tractor. If he is unresponsive (I was fortunate that my salesman was as I went through something similar), then you need to work up the chain until you are satisfied. Let me put it this way, if you don't, every time you get on the tractor you will get a little more angry until you are straight up pissed unless you either get what you feel you deserve (and I agree with you) or at least are able to tell yourself you did everything you could. Better to get the ball rolling now rather than later. Good luck! So far there are at least two forum members that went through this same thing with a positive outcome. Let them know that on the onset.

 

[radman1]

The bad paint is an issue the dealer should correct. They won't want to do it and you may have an issue. Was the price discounted because of the paint? I assume the tractor was sold as "new" with full warranty. Is that correct? If sold as new, and additional paint problems are present, then the dealer should fix it. Overspray is a poor way to paint something. Could have just used a rattle can too make it cosmetically better.

The 7TL loader is rated at 1225 lbs lift at 500 mm and used on all the 2xx series. A pallet of pavers or retaining wall block is probably closer to 3000-3500 lbs. Not surprising it won't lift it at all. It won't lift it with the CT235.

The 25 vs 27 hp engine is not going to make a significant difference in performance. If you really need more power a trade-in is the only way to get that. I suspect you will take a good beating on the trade-in because it is a used tractor. The low % financing and rebates will not apply to the next owner. You best bet for bigger tractor maybe selling this one directly.

 

[vpnwiz]

I read through your whole post and I'm not sure what you want. Are you saying they should give you a CT230 because that's the manual you got? Or that you signed a deal for the 27hp tractor but got the 25hp version instead?

Follow up in the other threads about guys who have had their CT225's replaced because of the 25hp/27hp difference. If those were the specs at the time you signed the papers then that is what you should have received. Word of caution though, is that almost every mfg (Bobcat included, it's on the brochure for my CT235) has a clause "Specifications and design are subject to change without notice". I would say that those that have been replaced were done more as a gesture to customer service than out of any legal liability. So I wouldn't go into this with a "you owe me" attitude but one of making something that is wrong, right.

I'm only about 15 miles from you. We bought from the same place. I had similar problems with the wait time on my tractor but Steve made them right, as I posted in another thread. I think the paint quality on my tractor is excellent - if you want to come look at mine to compare just let me know. But it sounds like we made similar mistakes, too, ordering the wrong equipment for the task at hand. Me ordering the belly mower instead of a 3pt, and you getting the smaller tractor that isn't up to the task of your pallet lifting requirements. I don't think the 2hp increase will make any noticeable difference but if it's a "new" CT225 you will have better paint. You don't need a belly mower do you?

 

[Mrb94]

At that time of night, I tend to ramble as I type. That being said, what I meant by the statement on the CT230, is that I wish I had the extra 5hp that it had (my lot is hilly and the CT235 with its 34hp would go up hills in mid-range that my CT225 needs low-range for), not that I want or expect Bobcat to give me a CT230 in place of my CT225 just because I have a CT230 manual. Sorry for the confusion...belly mower, huh? I take it you got the 66"? Hmmm, pm me a price and I'll take it up with the CFO.

To the other replies - thanks for your thoughts, and I know from reading other threads that some owners of the 25HP have gotten new tractors out of the deal. Yes, the specs out when I signed the papers that day was that CT225 had a 1.4L, 27HP engine.

As to the paint, I guess that I will have to read my warranty better - I was sold a "new" tractor with full factory warranty, but was unsure if it's like a car bumper-to-bumper warranty in that they fix paint defects. I definately consider rust on a "new" tractor to be a defect.

I do like my tractor, and it is a larger tractor than the other tractors I was originally pricing out (SCUTS from Deere and Kubota), and the free loader and rebate made me overlook some things such as the true lift ability. The thread where I originally talked about the loader and what I thought it would be able to do was the central ohio bobcat dealer thread. I don't know how to put the link to the thread in here.

Steve - when you read this, if you'll still talk to me, come by the house and we'll have a few beers and play some pool and discuss how this can be made right.

 

[galaxie428]

When I bought my tractor, my dealer showed me all the rust spots on the tractor and had me sign a form releasing them from any liability on the paint. They told me the reason for the rebates was because of the condition of many of the tractors that have sat on the lots for a while.

He did say they had mine sitting on their lot for a little over a year.

It is minor spots that I can fix myself and while I would rather had a shiny white one with no spots, I was willing to take the one I got for the $9K they knocked off the price.

It is kept in the barn now and unless the spots gets worse, I doubt I even mess with them.

 

[woodchuckcanuck]

Just a quick comment about rust on your tractors...go get a can of "Rust Check" or "Krown Rust". For almost 20 years I touch up dents and dings on my vehicles, rust stops dead in its tracks. Its also good for keeping all those threaded connections from seizing as well.

 

[tmorg1220]

First of all, I'm new to this site and am soon to be a ct225 owner. Thank you for all of your posts, they have helped me in making my decision on which machine I should purchase. Now heres my delima: I decided to take advantage of the free fel deal, Because I could not have cash in my hand until Sept. 10, my dealer was nice enough to have me sign a quote (valid For 30 days) and take the machine out of stock, thus extending the free loader deal for me until sept 27. My dealer found a ct225 last week and had it delivered to the dealership where i hope to pick it up nex week. He voluntarily gave me a small discount and told me he upgraded the seat, Which was great , but it raised a red flag. After reading the 25 hp/27 hp delima, I asked him which machine this was. It is the 25 hp version. The dealership is 3 hrs away and I have not inspected this machine. I have a big problem with the thought that my new machine has been sitting out in the sun and rain for 2 years. I know that technically it would be a new tractor, but I try really hard to take care of my equipment. So my delima is do I raise **** and try to get a new tractor, the machine that I thought I was getting when I signed the quote, or try to get a discount for taking an old inventory machine (he did already offer a small discount but I dont feel it was enough to make me forget that Im not getting the new machine) any suggestions from you guys will help. I hope to finish this deal by the end of the week.

 

[unclesalty]

After reading the 25 hp/27 hp delima, I asked him which machine this was. It is the 25 hp version. The dealership is 3 hrs away and I have not inspected this machine. I have a big problem with the thought that my new machine has been sitting out in the sun and rain for 2 years. I know that technically it would be a new tractor, but I try really hard to take care of my equipment. So my delima is do I raise **** and try to get a new tractor, the machine that I thought I was getting when I signed the quote, or try to get a discount for taking an old inventory machine (he did already offer a small discount but I dont feel it was enough to make me forget that Im not getting the new machine) any suggestions from you guys will help. I hope to finish this deal by the end of the week.

The only real difference between the 25/27 is the rear pto hp. 2 hp. I was just traded out of my 25 to a 27. my 25 was a dog! I was getting less than 1 gal/hr run time, the tractor could not get out of its own way backing up and It would stall easily in low range when working hard.If I used the bucket and ran the tractor into a pile of dirt to fill the bucket the tractor would stall. I couldnt even spin the tires, step too far on the gas and it would bog down. high range was only possible on flat land. It was sooting up the left loader arm. It had some problems! The new tractor has none of these problems, I just spent 5 hrs mowing and the fuel guage is still pointing at full. I had no problems bush hogging a field that just stopped my 1st tractor cold. I had to jump through a lot of hoops to get bobcat to swap out the tractor so get what you want up front. Test your tractor before you take delivery.
I dont think finding a new tractor is possible, Bobcat sold a ton of tractors and is struggling to get caught up. My dealer said the wait is at about 8 weeks. They have no tractors on the lot.

 

[tmorg1220]

Any other ct225 owners have any advice or suggestions for me?