What size chain should I use to pull large trees

[_RaT_]

Incredible strength on this stuff. I guess Sprectron 12 is the former name and AmSteel is the new name. I'd like to have a length just to have a length. Amsteel_12S

 

[btolle]

You can get the 1/2" AmSteel from Sherrill Arborist Supply , rated minimum breaking strength 22,500 pounds. $2.40 per foot, a little pricey.

Warn and other winch manufacturers are now selling the AmSteel as replacment winch cable and they charge a lot more than $2.40 per foot for it.

I bought 150' of 1/2" StableBraid (10,400 pounds breaking strength) also make by Sampson. Cost me about $125 including shipping.

My tree service man (who has many years of experience) knows rope very well and he said I couldn't break it with my B7510 (21 HP).

The main thing with any rope is to not subject it to "shock" loading. Don't jerk on it with the tractor, use a slow steady pull.

Samson Rope Catalog there is some technical information starting on page 22 that is worthwhile reading as well as information about when a rope should be "retired".

Bill Tolle

 

[slowzuki]

Synthetics are great for self recovery but have poor abrasion resistance. They don't tolerate misuse like wrapping around sharp edges on equipement to pull.

There are two major types, here is a link to my webpage on them, scroll down for the info on which types are appropriate for each use.
http://moose.ca/~slowzuki/slowzuki/body/winch/index.htm

Please don't say chain and wire rope are dangerous in a blanket statement. They all have their correct use. Synthetics are dangerous too if you misuse them.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Chain and wire rope are dangerous. I only use short length of chain around log for abrasion resistance. From there to tractor it's Spectron12 rope. Very light with virtually no stretch. Sure beats dragging heavy chain around and I can coil it uo and hang it from my ROPS without hurting paint or my back Check spec, but I think 1/2" is rated 12Klbs. )</font>

 

[_RaT_]

Ken, that is what I gathered as well especially after reviewing the various websites. There is no question it is great stuff and looks like more suitable rigging for the right situation, but dragging it on the ground over time as well as wrapping hard corners will shorten it's life tremendously. Nonetheless, the Samson website is filled with great information. I downloaded a bunch of PDF's on knot's, rigging for arborist etc. I think I'll stick with my 3/8" chain.

 

[stevenf]

Well Alamo Iron Works was good as their word they called last night and said the 1/2" system 7 chain was in and they would deliver it Fri AM. Its Friday and low and behold I got chain and its 31' all in one continuous piece. I guess they were still feeling bad about their first attempt to sell me chain hence the extra foot of chain. I took it back in the shop and weighed it, it weighs just under 80lbs hopefully I can drag it around to the different trees as carrying it over hill and dale will quickly get old. Now if I can figure out this choker thing I'm set for tommorrow, I think what I'm going to try is attach a large clevis to one end and feed the chain through it to tighten up on the tree as someone mentioned that grab hooks wouldn't stay hooked for long dragging on the ground and I have a big drawbar grabhook to attach to the tractor with. Thanks again for everyones ideas I'm sure many of them will be taken into consideration while I'm dragging trees to the house tommorrow.
Steve

 

[kenta]

I have been logging with a M-5400 and a farmi winch and pulling some 2000 lbs logs once and awhile. Your 90 horse without a winch should pull about anything, so I would get you this advise. I am not a professional logger, but am around them alot and they have the big skidders and take big hitches of half the forest so they have to have good chains. Go to a logging store or ask a professional logger what to buy. That's what I did and the chain was not like ordinary chain. The once hook was square to accept the chain and tighten the log and the other end was a hook to clinch it to a drawbar attachment or lay in the slot of a winch. I would think you would be happy with a farmi or similar winch. Mine has a 12,000 lb pull and can take 4 logs at time, depending on the size of the logs, etc. Anyway, the logger chain s are not sold in hardware stores and sometimes not in chainsaw stores. You need the loggers supply. They are very strong chains. Kenta

 

[Tom4310]

I have some pics to post of the chokers from Bailey's. I have read a few posts about dangerous cables, etc and yes, they will break and snap but so will chains. I live in a logging community in NE Oregon and I talk to loggers, my friends are loggers, and I live next to loggers and ALL of them use chokers and not chains, ropes or straps. Whether they buy locally or order from an online company, they all use choker cables in various configurations and lengths. Yes, the cables will get frayed from rocks but they are much cheaper than chains and gloves (as I am sure all of us wear) will save your hands.

The first is the 12' choker I have and it is 2 years old. I have skidded more logs than I can remember and it is a little frayed but will last many more years.

 

[Tom4310]

Closeup of end. You can get different size ends or have swedged ends to connect to bells on a winch line. I just drop this over a large hook on the drag bar on the tractor.

 

[Tom4310]

The swedged end is brought around the log and inserted into the bell. It lays into the slot and forms a loop. You can bind many logs together as it cinches down and holds them together when you skid. them. Release the tension and it comes apart, unlike most chains.

 

[Tom4310]

Closeup of the swedged end going into the bell. Very easy to do, especially when you are logging in 1-2 feet of snow and ice.

 

[Tom4310]

Closeup of the swedged end in the bell. The bell slides up and down the cable so your loop can be as long as you like. When you set the choker, you set it on the side or down low. When you skid the log, it spins the log up so you can "bump" the knots (limbs) off the underside. I am sure there are many options and people have their favorites. These are cheap, light, safe (IMO) and quick to set. As I said, get different lengths and you can skid 3-5 logs at a time to the landing. Hope it helps and I am sure this will generate more opinions. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[GregMVT]

Tom, do you have the link to where you ordered the cable? I think they would be a lot easier to use than chain, and could bring down more than one tree at a time. Thanks, Greg.

 

[Tom4310]

Hi Greg

Bailey's online store is:

Bailey's Online USA

Go to store/wire rope grappling/chokers

These are the premade chokers but you can contact them to make longer, different ends etc.

Tom

 

[MMM]

<font color="red"> Synthetics are great for self recovery but have poor abrasion resistance. They don't tolerate misuse like wrapping around sharp edges on equipement to pull.
</font>
With correst termination I don't see the need for wrapping rope (wire or syn)around anything sharp I don't even use a thimble just eye and shackle. With the short length of chain around log the rope doesn't see much ground contact. My 16mm skidding rope has been in use for 6 yrs.

<font color="yellow">Please don't say chain and wire rope are dangerous in a blanket statement. They all have their correct use. Synthetics are dangerous too if you misuse them.
</font>
The thread is about skidding and I am certain which I'd stand behind if I knew they were to part under load. I borrowed the idea from the loggers here They love it. The rope on the drum can be spooled off right at the skidder whithout backlash or a helper. Dragging cable and chain to inaccessible logs hundreds of feet away is tiresome, besides the recoil danger. They also like the extra drum capacity compared to cable. and ease of termination Chain is still used for choker and for binding loads.

 

[penokee]

Tom

Appreciate the pictures. I also have cable chokers from Bailey's, used them when skidding pulpwood logs with my AC H3 a few years back - IMHO easier to work with and safer then chains.

Had a small firewood skidding project this summer and rather then haul the H3, decided to try the Honda Foreman 4x4. Worked like a charm. Trees were pole wood size, up to 10" in diameter and tree length.

Found a few pictures so will post them for what they're worth. I ordered a couple of chokers with a loop on one end, worked good on the ball hitch. Made up a setup for my crawler, will post a picture of that in the future - could skid several logs at one time, from scattered locations.

penokee /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

penokee

 

[penokee]

another pic
penokee /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[penokee]

cable choker with loop on one end.
penokee /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[penokee]

Last picture - My faithfull Logging Buddy (put in the kennel before the action starts)
penokee /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[dixiedrifter]

I have an M9000 and have used both a grade 43 and grade 70 3/8" chain and have not broken either one yet.

That includes taking them to a tree that was too big, putting it in 1st gear, putting on the 4wd and locking the diffrentials and digging down about a foot with all 4 tires spinning. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

A 1/2" chain is overkill, IMO. The only way I would see breaking a 3/8" chain is by jerking it.

And I also agree that if your skidding logs a much better choice would be a cable.

 

[stevenf]

I used my new chain today I wish I had pictures it was magnificient I hooked up to an old cedar that was probably 30' tall and 8' around down near the base and just walked it right out of the ground in low low, I'm glad I went with the 30+ feet as it makes me much farther from the action if there is any.
Steve