What size chain should I use to pull large trees

[sendero]

Chains absolutely can snap back when they break!

When I was a teen I had a little MGB (Only for a short time, I could not keep this incredibly fun-to-drive beast running /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif). It had gone comatose and my brother was towing me home. His car did not idle too well, and he had to give it a little goose to keep it running. This tightened the tow chain quickly and it snapped and flew up into my windshield and left a series of nice spiderwebs on it.

Granted, the chain was abused by him pulling the slack out too fast - but since that time I am darn careful with chains.

 

[johndeere2210]

I lost the back window out of a 4640 when a chain broke that I was using to apply pressure to a large stump while my neighbor was pushing on the other side with his front blade. Don't use chains much anymore. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Tom4310]

I live in NE Oregon and my friends are loggers. I have done some logging on my 10 acres and use chokers, not chains. They are a cable (3/8", 1/2", 9/16") with a slide and ferrule on it. I use the small midget size and bought a 15' length. I use Bailey's which is online Bailey's Online

My neighbor logs his 500 acres using 5 of these chokers in different lengths connected to a dozer. They work great because the end is easy to slide under a downed tree and cinch down and tighten on the tree. Chains tend to come undone before you can get back on the tractor are next to impossible to slide under a downed tree. They are very, very hard to slide under a downed tree, especially in 12" of snow... /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

When you get to the Baileys site, go to "Wire rope, grappeling/chokers.

They are not expensive and cost $12 for a 10' in 9/16". You can get them to make up different lengths for you. They are easy to coil up and store and are much lighter than 20' of heavy tempered chain.

If you decide to use a chain, use tempered or hardened chain.

I attached a small picture of a choker that Bailey's sells. I have skidded 100' douglas fir trees with my 4x4 truck with my chokers. These trees are 25" at the butt and weigh about as much as my truck does.

Hope it helps and be safe. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Tom4310]

Forgot to attach the picture. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[_RaT_]

I'm with you.


"Get some gr70 or gr100(best) in 5/16 or 3/8 and that M9000 will never break it with a steady pull. I am using a L3830 useing 1/4" gr70 skidding 24" dia stuff. Its hard to break a chain with a steady pull but snapping it , they break easy. I have seen them strech on a steady pull."

Not to mention a heck of a lot more conveniant then the heavier chain and stiff cable. I have some 1/2" chain but always use the 3/8".

If you think a chain can snap, try a nylon strap, you have'nt seen (or heard) anything till you do. Just make sure you ease into tensioning the chain, if you have to snap it to move it, your tractors to small.

 

[_RaT_]

Tom, theres no question that a good cable set up is the best way to go. I don't drag trees and need the portability and convenience chain affords. If your really pulling trees, cable is what they use.

 

[stevenf]

rambler we are heating a 200 or so year old cabin solely with cheap wood stoves nothing fancy but we're in South Texas so its not the big deal it would be as if we were up north. I plan on mainly dragging trees down to the back of the cabin and cut them up to woodstove size chunks. Previously I've been using a Jeep with a 327" in it to pull a trailer around and cut the wood load the trailer and then drive to the house and unload the trailer. I'm just trying to cut out the load and unload by pulling trees to the house before cutting. Any pulling out of live trees will be done with caution as in order to pull a tree out I figure the line would have to be up in the tree to give leverage which puts the tree crashing down on the tractor. Someone mentioned in their post that chain would be hard to get around a fallen tree, most of our woodstove quality trees are oak, pecan, walnut and also most are pretty twisted as compared to the pictures of the pines and things that once fallen would or could be flat on the ground where you'd like to tie on at. I don't plan on yanking the trees around a whole lot just tying on and dragging them slowly to the house so I'll try the chain as I've already ordered it (in one solid continuos 30' length) and worse case if the trees present a problem with attachment I'll get a cable noose to slip under the tree and attach to the cable. Thanks to everyone for all their great ideas.
Steve

 

[KiotiJohn]

When practicable, I use the FEL to lift the end of the log to put my 3/8" chain around the log. Now, one has to be sure there is enough ballast on the rear, or it's coming up!
For felling trees, I use 3/4 and 1" braded nylon ropes, tie up as high as possible, tension the rope with the pulling vehicle (tractor or truck) and when the tree starts to go, it already has tension in the felling direction. To give a little boost to get past other branches on the way down, as soon as the tree starts to fall, the pulling vehicle is moved forward as fast as possible to give that extra momentum. Using pulleys to make the pull in the oposite direction keeps the vehicle out of the fall area. That is, if the cut is made right, there's not strong wind, and all goes well. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Anything can happen! John

 

[kensfarm]

"A close friend (veterinarian) lost his entire right hand "

Though this reply is off topic but it could help someone in emergency situations like this.. Task someone to find the severed body part. I had learned from helping at a skiing accident.. that putting severed body part in milk.. and keeping it cool.. will help preserve the tissue for re-attachement. (Ziploc bag w/ milk in it laid in a cooler w/ ice)

At the skiing accident.. the teenage girl had one of her ski's.. cut out a section of her mouth pallet.. teeth included.. the guy who got there before me was bent over throwing-up. The girl was awake.. sent one buddy for help.. the other dealt w/ her severed part. I put her mouth/tongue back together so she could close her mouth and we could apply pressure. A woman who showed up.. went and got her husband who was a facial surgeon to ride w/ her to the hospital. We never knew the outcome.. but we did our best to help her.

 

[slowzuki]

A note about the chain chokers, you can get them with a needle for threading under the log. And a note about winter, it is easier to get any choker under a tree in winter on the ground than in summer, you can dig a tunnel under!

Ken

 

[beenthere]

Witnessed that one time with a 3/4" nylon rope (not my set-up, but was there, nevertheless). When it broke, it was unbelieveable the damage that was done. The tree was near a house. The rope snapped, went back past the tree on the side opposite the chainsaw man, and through the side of the house (wood siding, 1/2 sheathing plywood, and drywall). It was a killer that missed everyone. The guy in the truck didn't realize there was that much tension in the rope as the truck just kept moving forward. He thought that when the rope became taught, that he would quit pulling. But it just kept stretching. The knot in the rope at the pulling end helped do the damage to the house.
I've heard of these ropes being used in rope-pulling contests, and when they break, the rope recoiling tears off fingers and does a lot of damage to the rope pullers. Don't think they use them anymore. The built-up tension is handy when pulling some things, as mentioned to have tension against the tree when pulling. But its handy only as long as the strength of the rope (at it's weakest point) isn't exceeded.

Never again will I pull anything with a nylon rope, and will only use them to tie things up (or down).

 

[stevenf]

slowzuki now your just poking fun at South Texans you said it was easier in the winter to get cable around tree because you could dig a tunnel. LMAO I'm assuming your telling me that you burrow through the snow. We only get snow at night once or twice a year and by morning it usually melts, every ten years or so we actually get a snow that will last a day or two but even then it's usually only a couple of inches. I think rather then wait for the next snow I'll use my FEL as was suggested by ? as I'll get a lot more trees moved this way rather than waiting for it to snow so I can burrow under it.
Thanks for all the great info I'm looking into the chokers that sounds like a great way to hold the logs in place as I can see the chain would probably slip off in the half mile skid to the house. Steve

 

[rambler]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Forgot to attach the picture. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif )</font>

Those cable chokers look neat, but I'm a little lost as to how they attach. I assume you thread one of the cable ends around the tree butt. Then through the red clampy thing so it holds somehow?

What do you do wth the other end of the cable, as it appears rather smooth - other than the Cat models with an eye. How do you grab the smooth cable with the pulling tractor?

It just looks too simple to me - and I like simple, I'm interested in these! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

--->Paul

 

[slowzuki]

LOL Texas, hmm, the ground gets magically softer in the winter! Re the cables vs chain chokers they both work well, many loggers carry both. It gets expensive to carry long chain chokers I think but I feel the chain is easier to work with.

Chain also slips into notches in small logging winch butt plates much easier if you have one. This is used when you winch in multiple hitches to skid out.

 

[Tom4310]

Hi Paul

Sorry for the small picture but that was from Bailey's website. I will take some close up pics with my digital showing how these work, the ends etc and post them tomorrow. Just check back tomorrow night.

These work great and are firm enough to slide under a downed log. The tip is swedged and it feeds through dirt, snow etc. Chains are difficult to get under a log and tend to tighten onto the log when you skid them. These chokers come undone easy and are light and easy to store.

Bailey's has different options for ends, cable diameter, lengths. I have the small micro bell with a heavy duty eye. I think it is 12' and it cost about $15 plus shipping. I believe it was under $20 total. I can slide this around 3-4 logs and cinch all of them together and skid the bunch to the decking area.

Check back tomorrow night and I will have it posted. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[MMM]

Chain and wire rope are dangerous. I only use short length of chain around log for abrasion resistance. From there to tractor it's Spectron12 rope. Very light with virtually no stretch. Sure beats dragging heavy chain around and I can coil it uo and hang it from my ROPS without hurting paint or my back Check spec, but I think 1/2" is rated 12Klbs.

 

[_RaT_]

I've never heard of such a rope. What is it made of? I would suppose that it too would be "dangerous" if used beyond its ability as is most stuff. I have a nylon strap rated at over 40,000 lbs. It is derated as it gets dirty which apparently degrades it's strength.

 

[MMM]

<font color="blue"> I've never heard of such a rope. What is it made of? I would suppose that it too would be "dangerous" if used beyond its ability as is most stuff. I have a nylon strap rated at over 40,000 lbs. It is derated as it gets dirty which apparently degrades it's strength. </font>

Only if you were using it to hang something too heavy over your head. I've seen the stuff break and it just lays there with no recoil. It's made from a Kevlar type fiber. It's marketed in US by Sampson Rope. Slings are notorious for stretch and are commonly used 'round here for "snatching" stuck vehicles. You would lose a bumper with this rope.
Do a google and you will be enlightened.

 

[tracdoc]

Reading this thread brings back fresh to mind the litany of patients which I had the privilege of caring for while directing the hand/microsurgery and burn units at the Yale Univ. Med. Ctr. It's fairly safe to say that none of these horrific injuries of all imaginable "amputateable" body parts was self-inflicted or even remotely anticipated by the patient. They were all "accidents."

While we all try to be safe all of the time, unanticipated life changing events do happen. If you are witness to a traumatic amutation of any body part, following these guidelines should ensure that the patient has the best possible chance to maximize a functional recovery:
<ul type="square">
1. First, be certain that the patient is receiving proper first aid/medical attention--the "ABCs" of Airway, Breathing, Circulation. Apply pressure to stop bleeding at the site of the amputation. Be aware that tourniquets can cause more damage than good.
2. Retrieve the amputated part.
3. Do NOT try to clean, wash, or scrub the part. The microvessels at the cut end are very easily damaged, and that additional damage may prevent a successful replantation.
4. Place the part in a clean, DRY sealable ZipLoc type baggie. For larger parts, use clean plastic garbage bag if available. The amputated part will not dry out if sealed in a baggie. Do NOT add water, or any other liquid to the baggie. None of those materials is physiologic, and they will all produce swelling and more damage of the critical microvessels. Even soaking parts in "physiologic saline solution" used in IV's has been shown to cause swelling and damage of the "stump" microvessels. These vessels are the essential elements needed by the microsurgeon to re-establish circulation, and any additional damage may preclude a reattachment. Milk has been advocated for soaking knocked-out teeth (w/o strong scientific basis). Replacing lost teeth, however, does not involve any microvascular surgery, so the milk is not harmful in that scenario.
5. Place the sealed bagged part in a container with WET ice. Snow is good, too. A styrofoam cup or a cooler is fine. Never use DRY ice. In the absence of blood circulation, dry ice will rapidly cause severe frostbite damage to the amputated part and may well render it unsuitable for reattachment.
6. Be absolutely certain that the amputated part accompanies the patient to the hospital. Alert the transport personnel, EMTs, etc, and physically hand the part to one of those in charge. Yes, we have had to send someone back to the scene to recover the "forgotten" part, and not a rarity either. It's easy to understand though, in a situation as emotionally charged as these often are. [/list]
Bottom line: be as safe as you can out there. However, if bad stuff happens, try to maximize the potential for a functional recovery by following these guidelines.

 

[dodgejack]

3/8ths should be strong enough. I use a Farmi winch and use the 3/8ths on the big ones 2' to 3' on the small trees which is most of them I use 1/4in boron chains both 80 grade. I've had trees hook on stumps and skidded some big ones 3'+ down a 1/4 mile rock strewn road. No breakage ! Cable chokers look like slinkys with barbs after much use.