Tractor Sizing What size do I need?

[jthakwvu]

Long time lurker here and about to purchase my first tractor. My question is more of what size do you guys think I may need as opposed to what brand. I'll worry about that later.
I'll try to give as much details about the land as possible. I have about 4 acres of lawn all on an incline that I have been mowing with a riding lawn mower for the past 7 years but I thinks it's just too much ground as that machine died this year.
I also do some landscaping and could use a bucket along with a MMM. Also, I'm closing on a 101 acres Oct. 1 and I have included an aerial map below. Everything not covered by trees is well maintained and decently level with a fair amount of fruit trees.
I would consider the dark green area to be "lawn" and the rest is cut for hay. The tree covered areas is all rugged terrain but I probably won't do much with the tractor there. Maybe some brush hogging behind the "lawn" area. The lawn area looks to be about 10 acres. The fields maybe a generous 15-20 acres.
Will obviously need either a rotary cutter or get into the hay cutting for the fields. So that would put me with needing a finish type mower, rotary cutter, FEL and probably a hoe in the future.

I'll be financing the machine and looking for 0% interest deal and would hate to go over 20k on just the tractor and mower for now. Will had the other attachments as I go. I know I'll get a better deal if I combine everything into a package butim just looking at the monthly price to stay low for the time being.

I was strongly considering a SCUT (John Deere 1025 with 60" 7-iron auto-connect deck and a rear blade combo for about 14k) but after a lot of reading, it seems that may be too small? So, what do you all think? Thanks in advance!

 

[wolftree]

The 4 acres of lawn and the 101 acres tend to place opposite needs of what tractor size to recommend. If the 4 acres lawn is open and relatively free of trees and shrubs, then I would be looking at a 30 pto horse power tractor. I would suggest looking at a rear mounted finish mower to hold down cost and getting the front loader with the tractor. The front loader will prove to be very valuable.

Carefull shopping should get you the tractor, front loader and rear mount finish mower as a package. If you purchase from an out of state dealer you can avoid sales tax and still stay at your $20k limit,(Barlows Kubota in Kentucky for instance).

 

[hlyautey]

$20K doesn't seem to buy much these days. My sister lives on our maternal grandparents 115 acre homeplace. Her husband has more money than God. He just spent $60K for a new Kabota and bat wing mower. My advice would be to satisfy whatever need you have as the need arises and as resources can allow.

 

[newbury]

I have about 4 acres of lawn all on an incline

I also do some landscaping and could use a bucket along with a MMM.

Also, I'm closing on a 101 acres Oct. 1 and I have included an aerial map below.

The lawn area looks to be about 10 acres.

The fields maybe a generous 15-20 acres.

Will obviously need either a rotary cutter or get into the hay cutting for the fields. So that would put me with needing a finish type mower, rotary cutter, bucket and probably a hoe in the future.

I'll be financing the machine and looking for 0% interest deal and would hate to go over 20k on just the tractor and mower for now.

As soon as you change your mind and try to haul a decent sized tree out of the woods you'll want a bigger tractor. You should plan on starting with about 40HP.

0% interest is worthless if the ride doesn't fit your needs. As written check with Barlow's, also try Messicks. Remember what you don't spend on the tractor can be spent on implements, or party girls.

And cutting hay on "small" acreage has generally been viewed here as an excellent way to get rid of excess money. The equipment is expensive.

For instance at the upper end of your need:
Messicks has what reads like a very nice Kioti 50C w/ 500 hrs W/ CAB but not HST, for $18.5 asking

And get a ZTR for your 10 acre golf course.

 

[hlyautey]

You said a mouthful there. It seems to me that most farming/logging operations are expensive hobbies that allow middlemen to pay terrific executive bonuses.

 

[GPintheMitten]

Are you going to build and move to the new property or keep both properties. How close are they? Will you be able yo drive or trailer equipment back and forth?

if you are never going to log out the woods, you go lighter than if you are going to log and build a road thru the woods.

for the price of a mmm, you may be able to get a dedicated mowing machine with about a 60 inch mower. Then get a tractor loader for the 100 acres with the balance of your budget.

There are a lot of different ways to go.

 

[bigbull338]

if your adding 100acs you really need 2 tractors.1. a 25hp compact with a mower deck an loader to mow your 4acs.2.a 50hp or better tractor to tend to your 100acs.

 

[jthakwvu]

I will be keeping both properties, might build on the 100 acres later down the road. I live on the 4 acres now and the 100 acres has a small house, a garage, barn and storage shed. The properties are about 7 miles apart.

I figured trailering between the two or just store the tractor at the farm and follow the advice on here and just get a dedicated mower for the 4 acres.

50hp?, that's a big machine for sure. Thanks to the hay cutting advice, I think I would rather use the 15-20 acre fields for a deer food plot.

I went to the local Kubota dealer this evening and looked at the L3800. I think it's a 30hp to the PTO. I have seen some nice package deals with the tractor, FEL, rotary cutter, box blade and trailer for around 22k. Seems like a pretty good deal.

Thanks so far for the replies.

 

[GManBart]

If you purchase from an out of state dealer you can avoid sales tax and still stay at your $20k limit,(Barlows Kubota in Kentucky for instance).

You can avoid the sales tax, but WV charges a "use tax" that is the same amount as sales tax. If you don't pay it, and get caught, it's tax evasion, and can be felony. I wouldn't want that sort of advice connected to me, even if it's only via a forum.

 

[jeff9366]

If you will be moving ROUND hay bales you will need a tractor with 50-hp and a Front End Loader, minimum.

Small round bales are 1,000 pounds, larger ones 2,000 pounds. Loaders for 50-hp tractors will generally lift around 2,000 pounds to full height, when new. You will probably need to stack them two high at some point.

With a 50-hp tractor/loader you can pull 72" and 84" implements.

Trying to work your fields with 60" implements behind a L3800 will get old after day three. It could be done but other work on your property calls every minute you are in the seat.

L3800's LA524FL FEL has a lift capacity of 1,500 pounds, when new. Not enough for Round Bales.

I suggest browsing the HAYING FORUM here on T-B-N. There are twenty-seven pages of Thread Titles in the Haying Forum.

You probably would not drive a truck with 50-hp. Why consider a tractor with less than 50-hp when tractor will pull 400 - 1,400 pound ground contact implements over uneven ground and power some of the implements through the PTO?

 

[Sysop]

As someone with some experience on "small" West Virginia hay fields I will agree you're looking at several times that $20k to get into haying your property with new hardware. Anything under 50HP we've used to run cutters and prep tools, to do the round bales it takes 70ish HP to manage the hills and a full baler, and then sometimes it is still a struggle. If you have really nice hay worth doing square bales, 50HP would be fine.

I think your deer food plot is a good idea. You might also do well to talk to others around you. Many times someone who needs the hay will come do the fields and take the hay and you don't need to worry about it.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I would get a ZTR mower for the lawn mowing. A 52-60" mower in commercial or near commercial grade will mow 3-5 acres per hour if the ground is smooth enough to run at full speed (HST Speed-engine should always be at full speed) I mow approximately 6 acres with my Ferris IS 700 with 52" deck in about 2 hours at a leisurely pace. Cant run full speed due to ground being too rough.
Haying might be practical if the whole 102 acres was in grass, but even used equipment on 50 acres or less is too expensive to justify tying up $30K+ for a round baler, rake and cutter not to mention the tractor cost to pull it. New round baler, 70+ HP tractor, tedder, cutter> you are looking at close to $100K.

A 40 HP or thereabout is likely all you need to bush hog, pull out the occasional tree, move a round bale (after someone else cuts and bales) and do other miscellaneous chores. MY Brother in law routinely moves round bales and stacks them 2 high with a New Holland T2310 Boomer. I had to use my LS P7010 to get the 3rd level in place but 2 isn't a problem and 3 can be done if the bales are light like after setting for 6 months and drying out.
You may bust your $20k budget getting a commercial or heavy residential zero turn and a 40 hp tractor unless you go used on the tractor but it wont be by much. My Ferris was $6200 with taxes included so you would only have about $14K for the tractor and I think you would need at least $18K for a new one and to get 0% financing you will have to go with new. Many mower dealers are also offering 0% financing.

 

[jenkinsph]

I agree with Gary on getting a real good mower as the first and highest priority. Your existing 4 acre lawn and the new place with 10 acres needs to be maintained first. Then take some time to figure out the rest of it.

 

[TSO]

I would get a ZTR mower for the lawn mowing. A 52-60" mower in commercial or near commercial grade will mow 3-5 acres per hour if the ground is smooth enough to run at full speed (HST Speed-engine should always be at full speed) I mow approximately 6 acres with my Ferris IS 700 with 52" deck in about 2 hours at a leisurely pace. Cant run full speed due to ground being too rough.
Haying might be practical if the whole 102 acres was in grass, but even used equipment on 50 acres or less is too expensive to justify tying up $30K+ for a round baler, rake and cutter not to mention the tractor cost to pull it. New round baler, 70+ HP tractor, tedder, cutter> you are looking at close to $100K.

A 40 HP or thereabout is likely all you need to bush hog, pull out the occasional tree, move a round bale (after someone else cuts and bales) and do other miscellaneous chores. MY Brother in law routinely moves round bales and stacks them 2 high with a New Holland T2310 Boomer. I had to use my LS P7010 to get the 3rd level in place but 2 isn't a problem and 3 can be done if the bales are light like after setting for 6 months and drying out.
You may bust your $20k budget getting a commercial or heavy residential zero turn and a 40 hp tractor unless you go used on the tractor but it wont be by much. My Ferris was $6200 with taxes included so you would only have about $14K for the tractor and I think you would need at least $18K for a new one and to get 0% financing you will have to go with new. Many mower dealers are also offering 0% financing.

Agree.

I mow about 5 acres (only about 25% of the time I can go full speed due to bumps) in about 2 hours with my 66" zero turn. I could probably cut 20 mins off if I wasn't mowing around stumps, but alot of my cutting is around objects, trees, gardens, etc.

I would NOT want to mow that with a tractor. I understand that some people don't want 2 different machines, but that ZTR is worth it. Makes cutting grass with anything else seem silly (grass size depending).

I agree that 40hp & up is going to be a necessity with that amount of property, and tractor shrinkage is a very real phenomenon. You're really going to limit your shopping choices if trying to stay below $20k. If you raise that number just up to $25k, you'll greatly expand your choices.

*Kubota MX4700, maybe an MX5100
*Kioti DK40, 45, or 50
*LS R4041, 4047 or the newer XR4046
*Mahindra 4035

All good tractors capable of lifting around 2500lbs, all above 40hp. They range from around $20-25k.

Personally, I wouldn't buy new implements as a package unless I had money to spare. Used implements can be found on Craigslist for half the cost (or less) and they usually last forever.

I'd rather spend my budget on the right tractor, and buy the other implements when the need arises. If you've got friends/family (or friendly neighbors) with tractors, you'll double your implements if you're both willing to play nice & share.

 

[jthakwvu]

Those are all very good points. I do believe a neighbor has been cutting/bailing the hay so hopefully I can work out a deal with him and keep that going.

I agree with maintaining the grass first and worry about the rest later. In doing so, would going the route of a SCUT with a MMM still be a silly purchase? I'm thinking I could still at least mow and do light landscape work with a FEL and keep the snow off.

My 4 acres is nothing but WV hillside and I've heard ZTR don't like that but I'm not sure.

The original owner of the 100 acres has been maintaining the 10 acre lawn with a JD X500 and it seems to mow really nice. I thought just step it up to something like the 1025 and add a few implements and worry about the 40 horses later as mentioned above.

Thanks again for helping out a total noob!

 

[murphy1244]

Those are all very good points. I do believe a neighbor has been cutting/bailing the hay so hopefully I can work out a deal with him and keep that going.

I agree with maintaining the grass first and worry about the rest later. In doing so, would going the route of a SCUT with a MMM still be a silly purchase? I'm thinking I could still at least mow and do light landscape work with a FEL and keep the snow off.

My 4 acres is nothing but WV hillside and I've heard ZTR don't like that but I'm not sure.

The original owner of the 100 acres has been maintaining the 10 acre lawn with a JD X500 and it seems to mow really nice. I thought just step it up to something like the 1025 and add a few implements and worry about the 40 horses later as mentioned above.

Thanks again for helping out a total noob!

Try a Ventrac, it takes to the hills like a Billy Goat.

 

[jenkinsph]

I wouldn't spend money on a 1025 fel when you will need so much more. I am not against fels or the 1025 for that matter but really think you need the dedicated mower if you are maintaining 14 acres of lawn. I have a 110tlb with a fel and use an x749 and 4520 without fel for mowing and 3ph tractor work, I would consider what should be a fast mower with a diesel for the lawn work something like a 997 Deere or other good brands.

 

[GManBart]

*Kubota MX4700, maybe an MX5100
*Kioti DK40, 45, or 50
*LS R4041, 4047 or the newer XR4046
*Mahindra 4035

All good tractors capable of lifting around 2500lbs, all above 40hp. They range from around $20-25k.

Personally, I wouldn't buy new implements as a package unless I had money to spare. Used implements can be found on Craigslist for half the cost (or less) and they usually last forever.

I'd rather spend my budget on the right tractor, and buy the other implements when the need arises. If you've got friends/family (or friendly neighbors) with tractors, you'll double your implements if you're both willing to play nice & share.

That's a good list. I'd probably add the new 1600 series Massey Fergusons as well....1648 up to 1660 will all lift 2,500lbs or more, and weigh 3,800lbs or more. They're newer, but the reports are good.

 

[TSO]

That's a good list. I'd probably add the new 1600 series Massey Fergusons as well....1648 up to 1660 will all lift 2,500lbs or more, and weigh 3,800lbs or more. They're newer, but the reports are good.

Just wasn't sure if it fel within the proper price range... that's why I completely left out JD as well.

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OP: Personally I'd completely skip over the SCUT line. If you ONLY had the 4 acres to maintain, then yes, it would work ... But that machine will just waste your time on the larger property, and you will likely regret not having the larger tractor.

I had my Kioti CK20s (23hp 1100lb loader lift) for a year before I realized it just wasn't strong enough to keep me happy. Great tractor, just needed more.

Right tool right job, as they say.

 

[GManBart]

Just wasn't sure if it fel within the proper price range... that's why I completely left out JD as well.

I'm not sure either, but I think it would be close...worth a phone call if there's a dealer nearby.