what size hay baler

mundamanu · Jul 12, 2004

Were these tests based on machines tested when new? NO

and

 There is no validity in any of the test results because these are not tested on the same day of buy independent testing.

CCI,
I do not know why you reacted so strongly to these reports, but I would like to point out that I think the points you have made above are based on inaccurate assumptions.

If you actually look at the reports, you will see that there is a print date in the upper right-hand corner of each report. Also, based on these print dates, you can see that the reports are listed on the website in chronological order, beginning with the first print date of May, 1977 reporting on the Hesston 5800 Rounder and ending with a report printed in March, 1992 on the John Deere 535 Round Baler. In addition to this, each report lists the retail price at the time of acquisition of the baler being examined and the date of the FOB delivery location. I did not check every single report, but a random sampling suggests strongly that each baler was acquired during the same month that the report was printed.

I do not know anything about the initial production and release dates of hay balers. However, based on the chronological nature of the reports and the fact that baler acquisition is contemporary with the report dates, I would bet my bottom dollar that the initial production and release dates on the various balers that appear in these reports are also contemporary with the report print dates (within a year or two).

Also, given the fact that these reports are intended to be scientific and not merely anecdotal, I believe the balers were not only contemporary, but examined when new. I admit, however, that this last point is pure supposition and cannot be confirmed using the available information.

Furthermore, these reports are the result of a 25-year long cooperative effort between the Alberta Farm Machinery Research Center and the Prairie Agricultural Machinery Institute, with the tests being performed at the latter's test sites, so I am not sure what you mean by "they have just posted results that someone sent to them." Please note that these reports are posted on a Government of Alberta website and that the Alberta Farm Machinery Research Center is (or was) an agent of the Government of Alberta.

cowboydoc · Jul 12, 2004

I do not know why you reacted so strongly to these reports 

Because CCI sells balers for lower hp tractors and wants everyone to believe that you can bale with a 40 hp tractor. I know Vermeer backs him up and there are other balers coming on the market for that as well.

Personally I agree with the study. You can't bale with a light utility or compact very efficiently in MY humble opinion. Stick a hayrack on the back of that baler and compact and that's an accident waiting to happen. I don't anyone can argue that you are going to have a significantly lower tractor life by running the tractor harder than it was made to do. That is what these mfg. of these small balers are doing. They are getting every last ounce that tractor has to make these balers work.

I've never understood why a person can afford to buy a $15-30k plus tractor and then not buy an older $5000 utility tractor if you want to bale hay? You need two tractors for doing hay anyway. Well you can do it with one but it's a heck of alot easier with two.

HayDR · Jul 12, 2004

Most of the low HP recommendations are on closed throat balers. The closed throat balers will not bale hay with a moisture over 12-15%. Which is where we all should be baling but we see one cloud on the horizon and we bale because the balers now will bale the higher moisture hay. The higher moisture hay the more HP is demanded from any MFG's baler. What if the hay was baled in a drought year or a wet year with a heavy dew.
I have read all these tests and they make some interesting points and do not agree with the reports. These tests are not consistent because every year the hay is different and the same type of hay is not been consistent with every baler. Just because some Joe blow put some stats up on the net does not validate those stats. A JD510 gets as good a marks as a JD535 and the Cowboydoc can tell you the JD510 is a dog.
CCM has sold over 4,500 round balers since 1972. I can say we have seen most everything out there and had to make it work for the customer. When we take a trade in it has to be field ready or we send it to an auction. We have worked on about everything known since we have been doing this for 30+ years.
I just want people to know that these reports are not the gospel.

JerryG · Jul 12, 2004

BTW I've heard from many folks that the Hesston chokes on wet hay. Is this true? 
We bale with my F-I-L and he has a Hesston 740. I don't know the moisture percent, but we don't have any problem with choking. Even in really thick hay that we are trying to get up be for the rain. We baled through a small shower once this year.

RichNJKubota · Jul 12, 2004

I just did 10 acres of hay with my 43 hp Kubota. Pulled the NH320 baler and hay wagon.
I would think you could bale with your 30hp but I don't think that you could pull a wagon also.
Can you borrow a neighbors baler for a test?
At least you could take a few bales and open them up on the ground and re-bale them - for a test.

Rich

slowzuki · Jul 13, 2004

I haven't bought a compact yet but the reason for me not to want to keep 2 tractors is double the maintainance, double the repairs and the headache of having an old 5000$ bucket around.

Still haven't talked myself out of doing it though! We are looking at big compacts because of all the non-haying activities. When we looked hard, a few $$ more, say going from a Kubota 3430 HSTC to a 4330 HSTC, we can run a square baler (no wagon). This means if the other tractor breaks down we aren't stuck. I would also rather ted, rake, or even mow and run loads in an air-conditioned tractor than an old open one.

Yeah I could buy a 10 year old ag sized cab tractor with AC for the same price but then I can't do what the small tractor could do.

Its a never ending problem! Oh an suspect most peoples reason is they have a tractor already and you need more hay than most have to bother buying even a 5000$ tractor!

( I've never understood why a person can afford to buy a $15-30k plus tractor and then not buy an older $5000 utility tractor if you want to bale hay? You need two tractors for doing hay anyway. Well you can do it with one but it's a heck of alot easier with two. )

cowboydoc · Jul 13, 2004

I have an almost 40 year old JD 4020 and have done no repairs on it for the four years I've owned it. Maintenance takes about an hour once a year. Now granted you couldn't get a 4020 for $5k but there are very nice Internationals, Masseys, and lower hp JD's going for that $5k range. I wouldn't call them buckets at all.

When I first started the only tractor I could afford was an old Massey Super 90. I paid $3000 for it and put 1000 hours on it without one repair.

I have three cab tractors but still rake and ted with the 4600. The reason is field compaction. Daryl (5030) had some great info. on ground compaction from a university in Michigan. The lighter you can be the better, especially in wet conditions.

The best part of two tractors is that, old or new, you are going to break down. Having another tractor to get your hay cut, baled, raked, etc. can save a hay crop which in my case would more than pay for the extra tractor just on one cutting.

slowzuki · Jul 14, 2004

Cowboydoc,

I wish we could get decent tractors here for 5000$. There is so many people with small acreage here there is a demand for them and they get snapped up.

The main tractor we use is a late 70's 4wd International 584 and it requires maintenance all the time, probably 1 hour for every 10 hours use. Everything from oil changes to repairing driveshaft to fixing shifter linkage to changing the starter etc. It has high hours on it though.

Oh, if tractors were just cheap eh? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif