What to do with leaking hillside?

[CliffordK]

Do you have year-around flow?
Year-around rain (you may choose to also capture roof water)?

Here we get wet winters, and dry summers, so I think my spring will provide year-around flow, and while I could capture rain water, it would need a big tank to hold enough rain water for 3 or 4 months of use without replenishment. At the same time, my spring should give me somewhere around 100,000 gallons during the summer.

Here is the thread about my spring.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/rural-living/279501-developing-small-spring.html

I'm still working on it some. I just let excess flow go downhill (where it would have gone anyway). My pump is on page 3 of the post. I'm setting it up with 12V, which I'm planning to convert to solar later, but 110V pumps are also very common.

My calculations are that at about 1GPM, one gets just under 1500 gallons a day, so a 1500 gallon storage tank is a good size, buffering about 1 day worth of pumping. I'd rather have even a slightly larger tank.

Right now, I'm only running the pump a few hours a day, but my ultimate goal is to run it 24 hrs a day. I have a float switch on the collection basin, but not at the barrel/tank at the top of the hill. My plan is to connect an overflow to a hose to water trees & etc with any "excess" water, thus, I should be able to design the system to allow pumping 100% of the water uphill, without regulating it at the storage tank. At least in theory. And, if I go with solar, the energy will be free.

One of the issues with a "remote float" is that wiring would become much more complex. You could just put the two float switches in series (with the lower one set for on when full, and the upper one set for on when empty). However, that would mean that both float switches would require full volts/amps. And all the wire in between too. For a 12V system, that becomes a problem with resistance and voltage drop. So, one may need a relay system. With a single float, that is no longer an issue. Plus, my goal is to use the water.

 

[Tkblacktail]

I would like to have this "problem". I'm cutting into E30 above my coast range house and while I do not have visible water, I have muck that must be seeping under my home and working its way into the crawl space in the form of vapor. Crawl space is covered with 6 mil black plastic. I'm below the stem-wall with the cut and I hope the drain and wall I'm installing will turn the moisture to the sides of my home.

The E30 was against our house when we bought it in 2001; I've been gnawing on it all these years, I bought my tractor a couple weeks ago and wammo, I have 120" of distance.

Our well is situated below our home; how nice it would be to have running water above our house for a gravity feed system....

 

[kevin37b]

Dig on the opposite side and see if that relieves some pressure .

 

[extrakt0r]

Anyone worked with Wayne pumps before? Thinking of using this one... Wayne Energy Efficient Submersible Stainless Steel/Cast Iron Sump Pump — 4600 GPH, 22ft. Max Total Head, Model# EE980 | Sump Pumps| Northern Tool + Equipment

 

[aczlan]

Anyone worked with Wayne pumps before? Thinking of using this one... Wayne Energy Efficient Submersible Stainless Steel/Cast Iron Sump Pump — 4600 GPH, 22ft. Max Total Head, Model# EE980 | Sump Pumps| Northern Tool + Equipment

That will only lift the water 22 vertical feet, so watch out for that.

Aaron Z

 

[Dr_Zinj]

Doesn't look like you have a high volume flow. I'd go with a french drain over perf pipe leading to a collection tank, and then use a small solar powered pump to an uphill storage tank so you have a gravity feed/pressure system to water your lawn and garden with. Spread it/spray it over enough surface and you might be able to evaporate all of it, at least during the summer. I think you're still going to have to route the excess into your normal surface runoff.

 

[CliffordK]

That will only lift the water 22 vertical feet, so watch out for that.

Aaron Z

Yep,

Perhaps I should have looked at the sump pumps a little more.

Beware of low pressure & "head rating", as well as pumps that advertise a high systemic pressure, but low head rating.

For many pumps, the flow and pressure/head are inversely related, so you get zero flow at the maximum pressure. They should include a pressure/flow graph, but it isn't always provided.

I went with this pump for my 12V DC system.
NorthStar NSQ Series 12V On-Demand Diaphragm Pump 2.2 GPM @ 70 PSI | Sprayer Pumps| Northern Tool + Equipment, then have a remote foot with an anti-backflow valve that I picked up from the local building supply store, as well as a free floating ball switch (See discussion in the thread). This keeps the pump dry, but perhaps a sump pump would have been much simpler.

Water weighs about 0.43 lbs per vertical foot. So, if you are doing about 50 feet of rise, you would only need about 25 PSI, except that you also need to have FLOW, so a bit higher rating is needed.

Most submersible well pumps are designed to be long and skinny, which could be awkward for your collection system, but they certainly are designed for high pressure, and I suppose to survive silt and other adverse conditions.

There are, of course, many shallow water (and creek) well pumps.

 

[Gator6x4]

If mine I would dig out in the area of the spring. Install a large diameter section of concrete pipe or tile. I would then slope or create a drainage ditch and line it with Rickrack. (No French Drain)This would give you a flowing water source to incorporate into your landscape. The storage head could then be used to supply water for your garden or lawn irrigation. Once you have the large tile installed with an outlet you can accurately measure the gallons per minute the spring is outputting. It looks substantial from the posted photos and something that would rapidly fill a fifteen hundred gallon storage tank.

 

[fishnnut]

Dig a ditch around your house and make a moat! HAHA!

 

[EddieWalker]

For a long term, permanent solution, I would avoid anything mechanical unless that was the last option possible. I'm also very hesitant on French drains. They work great when they first go in, but depending on the soil and amount of rains you get, they only last so long. You might get ten years or more out of it, or you might get half of that.

Open trenches are always the best way to remove water. Wide with a gradual slope and edges for maintaining them works the best and they last forever.

From what I can tell in the pictures, the entire hillside is leaking. Catching all that and moving it away from your house so the ground can dry up will be very involved, expensive and probably temporary.

Have you considered working with the water and creating a creek type setting in your landscaping? There are quite a few plants that you can choose from for the hillside that will hold it together and thrive on all that water. Once landscaped, it will become an asset that you will be able to enjoy as it matures and fills in. Something that will not require redoing or an ongoing electric bill.

Congratulations on a beautiful house in an amazing setting!!!

Eddie

 

[MarkV]

You might consider a plastic septic tank as a holding tank for the seep and gutter system. This site seems to have much of what you are thinking about. Underground Water Storage Tanks For Cisterns

MarkV

 

[radioman]

I am thinking that maybe a terraced ditch cut into the hill just below where seepage start. This will catch the water and divert it to your collecting culvert with large rocks filled in ditch to "filter" water and number 1 stones around the culvert. Add a overflow pipe at top of "tank" to go to the ditch/stream you have going out. I'd forgo the sump pump idea and use a shallow well pump system and place in the collecting culvert and pump it directly to where you need it. the less electric stuff you use, the less problem you will have. You need to have a way to disconnect the pump system so you can put it in the house for wintertime to prevent freezing issues.

 

[CliffordK]

You'd catch the majority of the runoff by cutting several ditches across the hill, and filling with perforated pipe surrounded by rock. The rock doesn't have to come all the way to the surface. I'd probably cut the ditches near where the "leaking" is occurring. Perhaps even starting slightly above the "leaks", so that you actually cut through the springs. Of course, try to slope everything downwards for good drainage.

Then, as mentioned, plant some good ground cover on the slope.

 

[extrakt0r]

So my Wayne pump came today and I rigged this up tonight after work. Based off GPM and how long the pump ran I estimate 400 gallons on the hole I dug. It takes about 4 hours to fill up.

Next step is to take the tank off the trailer and dig a half moon hole to put it in. Build a top, and make the install more perm overall.

 

[CliffordK]

It is looking nice.

How are you getting the water out of the tank? Why not move the tank to the highest spot in the area, and perhaps add a stand for gravity feed.

I've been considering the difference between an elevated vertical and horizontal tank. It might take up less space and perhaps get more height with a vertical tank, but the pressure will be more uniform with the horizontal.

I've been using low pressure... and it is a bit of a pain, so perhaps a second booster pump is best anyway.

 

[extrakt0r]

Actually I dont have the water going into the tank yet. Ran out of daylight last night. I need to clean the tank, and build some sort of cover for the inlet and figure out how to do an overflow. I want the water to go into the tank, then if the tank gets full have it spill out into the creek basically.

For the irrigation I plan on getting some sort of pump that I can sit in the bottom of the tank and turn it on to water the garden we will be starting in the spring.

For now I am just needing to get the back area around the house and the bottom of the hill dry enough so I can get it graded and seed down, so I can have a nice runoff area for rain. Right now if i walk on that dirt i sink down calf deep, let alone a tractor...

 

[Biggreenavalanche]

have you considered a nice deep pond below the walkout, fed by cold spring water, like Eddie said, incorporate a creek feature but feed a pond, sounds like you're getting on the order of 100 gph...deep cold spring fed pond could support Rainbow trout...and be very nice feature to the property...just food for thought...

Rich

 

[crbr]

thanks for the pictures

 

[skyhook]

I don't know, but personally, I think your holding tank is a waste of time at the moment.
From what I've seen, you should concentrate on getting "ride" of the water, not on containing it.
Where ever you decide to divert this water from the hill, is where you should tap in for your water.
A plastic holding tank in the ground is not a good idea, especially if you have frost and lots of water.
The tank will float to the top if it's not properly secured.
If you have a well to feed water to your house, it's my guess that this well will never run dry,
you could use this well for your outdoor project's and I would bet you would never get it emptied.