Whats a good price to pay to till gardens

[ddl]

I have never been that hard up to have to pay to till someone elses graden. What I charge is $35 a graden or 1/2 which ever happens first. As for insurance, you need it and it is cheaper than paying for damage out of your pocket. Don't forget to get liabitiy coverage.

Dan l

 

[TerryinMD]

Yes... we discussed this topic a couple of months back.

I checked into the insurance issue and found out the following for Washington County, MD.

My tractor is 100% covered as long as it stays on my property. It is covered under my homeowners policy.

If I wish to do ANYTHING off my property, I can get a "Lanscapers" policy with $300k liability for $500 a year. One of the first things the insurance agent asked was if we had a backhoe. I do not have one. He said "good!". He didn't mention any cost but said it was VERY expensive.

Terry

 

[fractal]

Just a couple of random thoughts.

First, a tractor based tiller is not particularly useful for small gardens. It is hard to get it to the garden, it can not get into the corners, and it tends to pile the dirt up along the edges where it starts. I have a 48 inch tiller on mine and still wind up doing the edges with a walk-behind after I finish tractoring.

Ballance this with ... I tried to till my modest garden (30x60) with my old trusty MTD 5hp front tine tiller. I gave up after a couple of hours. I then went down to the rental yard, rented an 8 hp rear tine tiller. Returned it after 4 1/2 hrs paying the late fee for missing 4 hrs feeling like I had been beat up by a couple of linebackers. It broke the top 'couple of inches'. Finally bought the bota with the tiller and it gave me a nice 6 inch till real easy. It is another case of "horse power rules". The bad side was I spent more time manuvering the tractor into and out of places than I did actuall tilling. The good side is I spent less time actually doing the job using the tractor than with a rear tine walk behind.

So, your tractor based tiller will break into places a walk beind would strugle with but will not be very efficient with small areas, and you will spend a lot of time manuvering the unit. You may also spend time with a walk behind cleaning up the edges.

Rental on a small tractor with tiller is 200 / day around here and skilled labor 15-25/hr. My math shows that to be about 50/hr with a 2-3 hr minimum if you want to make money at it. Less than that if you want to do it as a favor.

I can't comment on insurance and liability issues but would definately consider them before I started accepting money.

 

[patrickg]

I haven't used my tiller (60 inch 3PH, PTO) very much before it clustered on me, about an hour. The clutch broke up froze and the rotating tines drove the tractor forward until I declutched the PTO. Fixed under waranty it now is doing fine. Get a little extra pay for the kity to cover repairs as your requipment will break sometime and may not be under waranty.
I went out of town overnight and when I returned a neighbor had plowed my garden. I had asked his opinion on location but not discussed his help. He saw that I had a middle buster plow ready to attach and knows I have a tiller BUT on my return there was our new garden about 40x140 ft MOL. I tilled it 4 times and was at the point of diminishing returns so we started planting it. The dirt hadn't been worked for at least 50 years, since this region was all cotton production so it was great to have a tiller BUT I had two neighbors offer to till it for me because that is the way most of the folks around here are. I could never break even around here doing any simple tractor work because there are too many folks "giving it away". Not complaining, mind you, just stating a fact. The guy that plowed my garden ranches several hundred acres and runs hundreds of black angus is in his mid-late 60's but took time to plow my garden. With out being asked he bailed a bunch of hay for another neighbor with a few acres of dense grass, a job too small to attract a commercial custom bailer but still a fair piece of work and would accept no money for his work. This guy is pretty much a loaner and works alone. He is difficult to get to accept help. In three years I got to drop a round bale into a feeder for him twice (his cattle, my property) once during an extended snow storm (I have a heated cab he has three or four tractors and no cab on any and once when he was going to a high school ball game and it would have been real inconvenient to have to put out a round bale. I know everyone will think this guy to be very exceptional but I use him as an example of why you couldn't turn an easy buch around here selling tractor work. He is at the top of the list but there are others nearly as giving. AND he has come over and done dirt work for me with his dozer because he thought my litle 'Bota would wear out before I could do what he could do in a couple days.

I view your commercial interests with mixed emotion. For your sake I hope there are lots of folks with lots of money willing to pay your actual costs plus a set asside for eventualities and a small profit on your investment of capital and something for or labor. On the other hand I like to think there are others out there like my neighbors who will do something for someone because it needs done not because you offer pay or even ask for help. These nice folks have motivated me to "pass it on". I can't really ever repay them in kind as there is no opportunity so my only opportunity to "even the score" is to do something for someone else, after the example of my neighbors.

My 60 inch tiller does a pretty good job BUT not at the start or end of a pass. If you go N-S then S-N you will get alternating piles of dirt and holes at the ends of your passes. I raised the chain adjusted flap at the rear of my tiller so I could till while backing without having the flap act as a diving plane but backing gives quite different results from going forward and you still have holes and hills at the ends of your passes. Paying customers, especially with smallish gardens, might expect and want (demand) neat even results. So you might need a walk behind tiller as well like a weed eater to help a big riding mower. Alternatively a lot of shovel and rake work. Unfortunately my hands no longer fit most of the hoe, rake, or shovel handles.

Good luck,

Patrick

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Its nice to help people out but a lot of people ask for a service and if your machine breaks down while helping then you find out how good the people are. Do they help pay to repair the break or do they say thanks for what you have done and goodbye. I have people ask me to do work all the time and I will help people that work for us or good friends of ours but no one else because you never know where someone decided to drive a steel stake into the ground or left a partial roll of wire in overgrown brush and next thing you know you have busted up equipment and a big repair bill. Help the ones you trust, have the ones you don't know or trust pay. My tractor is sitting at one of our workers place right now because he wanted a driveway dug and pestered me everyday to get the tractor there. Works been done for a week now and tractor sits there because he is taking his time to get the tile so I can spread the gravel. Last time the tractor will go there unless everything is ready before hand. Some people only care about themselves and ruin it for everyone. Take care and have fun.

 

[ddl]

quiet a story but for your piles and holes at the end of the graden, all you have to do is make one pass across the ends to remove these piles. if you it right, you till a graden without any tire tracks showing.

 

[patrickg]

ddl, Sorry, but you'll have to give me a little more detail to understand what you mean. The garden's long axis is N-S and as it slopes downhill to the south we are planting our rows E-W to be more level and handle water better. I tilled it 5 times (or was it 4?) and as it was my first time tilling a garden, I was trying to learn how to do a good job. My tiller rotates the same direction as the tractor's wheels when going forward. When you start down a row after positioning the tiller at the edge of the space to be tilled, it kicks a considerable amount of dirt up out of the plowed area onto the "margin" of the garden plot. When I get to the other end and stop the tilling action, the tiller has dug up and thrown the last bit of earth toward the rear leaving a hole (with neat "beaver teeth" marks) in the ground.

You propose that I till the north and south ends with an E-W pass, if I get your drift. The dirt that was thrown out of the plowed area onto the margin will still be there as a series of tiller-wide mounds after the E-W passes. The places that were left as holes remain as holes, at least low spots just not as distinct as before. It is a lot quicker for me to just use a sturdy garden rake and some Sweedish steam to pull the errant earth back into the garden and to level out the holes along the ends of rows.

The first few times I tilled the plot I made passes N-S. The final tilling of the whole plot was made with E-W passes as I wanted any residual "lines" or tire depressions to run with the direction of the intended rows, E-W. The final passes (E-W) made the same problems as before, holes at the ends of passes and mounds of dirt thrown out of the garden plot at the beginning of a pass. I even raised the back flap to get it out of the way (before I left it max down to constrain the tilled up dirt better) so I could till while backing but that was not a very successful experiment. The tiller was forced deeper into the ground and the tractor would sink down into the tilled dirt quite a bit which lowered the tiller more making it till deeper and so on and so forth. In enginering terms, positive feedback. This positive feedback drove the system out of its safe operating envelope and lugged the engine. It was like trying to bore a slanted hole down into the earth with the tiller. I raised the 3PH during a subsequent attempt but it was too hard to "feather" the control and I got really inconsistent results.

As you can see, I was a raw beginner with a tiller. I think I did fine except for the holes and ejected mounds of dirt "out of bounds." Anyway the potatos, onions, corn, tomatos, peppers, radishes, letuce, and I don't know what else as my wife was planting again the next day is in the ground and it rained the next day.

I'm open to suggestions, especially with more detail as I would much rather be in the tractor seat than flailing away with a rake (they hardly fit my hands).

Patrick

 

[gordon]

When first I got my tiller I had the same problem with the ditch at the end of the till rows. Since I till for other people this wasn't an acceptable way to leave it. So here is what works for me to get rid of the end row holes.

First it depends on not only the size of the garden but also if I can get the tractor at that angle. Some of the gardens have fences on one, two and three sides and they want it tilled as close to the fence as I can get.

At your end rows to leave no ditch this is what works for me. If possible and if the garden is large enough I box the outside of the garden. This leaves me a good reference marks. Some people plant ground cover at the end of the season and alot of the amish gardens are covered with straw and horse manure. So it takes a quick run to break this stuff up.

At the end row raise your three point part way up about three to four feet from the end of the garden. I raise mine first about so the teeth are just touching the dirt. Then at about two feet about another two to three inches up. This leaves just the rear door dragging the small amout of dirt thats left and leaves a perfect end +or-a foot when you first start doing this. After you get some hours on the tiller it will be within a few inches at worst.

At the start of the run I do the same thing in reverse. I don't just drop the tiller into the dirt. I feather it into the dirt. That way only a small amout of dirt will fly out into the (margin zone).

Then when finished tilling the garden the last two runs I do (if there is room to get the tractor in there) is the oppsite of the garden runs at each end.

At worse I've got to get off the tractor and kick a small amout of dirt back takes a good 30 seconds to a minute. But I"ve got to get off the tractor to collect my money and knock any dirt off the rear door of my tiller.

Oh and to others, the tiller has been a good investment so far. If it was for me a small tiller would be more than enough because I only have a VERY SMALL garden. I bought it to make money with and I"ve done very well with it.

Gordon

 

[ddl]

if you tilled the garden on your last pass lets say north to south and back north, at the ends of north pass you leave a hole where you lefted the tiller, at the other end you leave a hill. when all done make a pass cross wises on the ends and the hills and holes disappear. It is amazing what you can do with a tractor and a tiller with a little practise, no is born with htis knowledge. you are doing excellant.

 

[patrickg]

Gordon, Thanks for the note. I tell you, if I had it do do over I might have arranged the long axis to be more level with the slope across the short dimension. My last time tilling the garden I went back and forth the short way to leave any tire impressions (OD on the rear wheels is over 6 ft and I have 60 inch tiler) more nearly level to control errosion when watering or in a rain. What a workout, especially since I don't have room to make a nice large smooth turn at the west end being close to the drop off down toward a pond but instead have to back and fill back and fill to jockey around to make another run.

Next year, if my memory works, I'll do things a bit different, incorporating some of the sugestions I got here on TBN from the guyslike you who have been there and done that. Took the tiller off today and put on the auger to plant a dozen rose bushes. Tomorrow a few more roses, 3 palm trees (likely to die next winter), and then after a "quick" implement change to a middle buster, I'll make a row for a bunch of bulbs.

Thanks again to all who commented and critiqued tiller methodologies,

Patrick