What's With the Ford Super Duty Pricing?

[Builder]

I bought a 2008 Ford V10 gasser. I needed something reliable for occasinal towing. My fuel economy appears similar to the 6.4 diesels.

Everything I'm reading about the 6.4L seems to point to very disappointing fuel economy. I think it's caused by the DPF system and the high RPM range it needs to be run in to acheive peak torque. Diesels get better fuel economy when they do their "work" down low in the RPM range. That's why bigger diesels put so much stress on making peak power at very low RPM, to save the owner/operator on fuel bills and rebuilding costs.

 

[Builder]

You need to compare similar engines the 2008 Ford 6.4 has a lot of enviromental stuff the the older diesel do not have.
Compare the 6.4 to the cummins 6.7 and the duramax 6.6 that has the same enviromental requirements. None of these engines are proven yet. And none of them are the same as the older proven diesels, all are new designs. Time and miles will tell if they are any good.
From what I can tell the only thing thats proven is that the fuel economy is less than previous models.

Untrue. The DMAX is still the same proven engine. The block/pistons/crank/valves/heads/injection system/turbo/displacement is unchanged from its' predecessor.
The Ford & DC diesels have increased displacement and in Ford's case, a totally new design with a different common rail fuel injection (used to be HEUI), different injectors, 2 turbos instead of one, and many other changes.

The only change to the DMAX was the addition of the DPF to the exhuast system and the programming to run it..

My reasoning for buying an '07 non-DPF truck was just that...to get away from the whole DPF mess.

But if I was buying an '08, my choice would still be GM. Proven diesel and drivetrain. Ford & DC have redesigned diesels (DC to a lesser extent). DC is also using a new, unproven Aisin 6 speed automatic, which looks good, but is unproven in the DC truck.

 

[ducati996]

too bad GM didnt really have an equivliant to the F550 4x4 payload wise without jumping up to 26k models. Its turning out the 6.0 model especially the last few years, are becoming a very desirable motor (lack of emission extras for starters). Apparantly Ford felt very comfortable with the 2006 6.0, they threw in a 5 yr /100k without asking...

As for the rest its sounds like the generic Ford Vs Chevy Vs whatever...just be happy with what you bought - the rest is meaningless IMO

 

[Builder]

too bad GM didnt really have an equivliant to the F550 4x4 payload wise without jumping up to 26k models. Its turning out the 6.0 model especially the last few years, are becoming a very desirable motor (lack of emission extras for starters). Apparantly Ford felt very comfortable with the 2006 6.0, they threw in a 5 yr /100k without asking...

As for the rest its sounds like the generic Ford Vs Chevy Vs whatever...just be happy with what you bought - the rest is meaningless IMO

GM does. They have the 4500 (16,000 GVWR) and the 5500 (19,500 GVWR) to compete with the 450/550. I couldn't buy one because I need it to be an everyday driver. That's too much truck for an everyday driver. I agree that GM needs a smaller competitor for the 450/550. Put the dmax/allison combo in a 450/550 and you'd have a world beater.

Ford threw in that warranty as an incentive because they couldn't give away the remaining 6L Ford trucks. All of my local dealers still have lots of '07 6L's on the lot. I see left over '07 Ford non DPF's in the Truck Trader all over the place. I see very few GM & DC non-DPF trucks.

My dealer made me a once in a lifetime deal on a '07 crewcab F-450 4x4 XLT that would have made it cost thousands less than the '07 GMC 3500 I'm driving right now, but there was no way I could convince myself to buy an engine with a poor reputation with less power and a 5 speed auto, even if it was a beefier, stronger chassis.

 

[KICK]

I see left over '07 Ford non DPF's in the Truck Trader all over the place. I see very few GM & DC non-DPF trucks.

maybe that is because Ford sell more of that particular unit that the General?

I dont know the sales figures but in my neck of the woods I would say Ford is outselling GM 3 to 1 on the 1 ton and up models.

 

[ducati996]

GM does. They have the 4500 (16,000 GVWR) and the 5500 (19,500 GVWR) to compete with the 450/550. I couldn't buy one because I need it to be an everyday driver. That's too much truck for an everyday driver. I agree that GM needs a smaller competitor for the 450/550. Put the dmax/allison combo in a 450/550 and you'd have a world beater.

Ford threw in that warranty as an incentive because they couldn't give away the remaining 6L Ford trucks. All of my local dealers still have lots of '07 6L's on the lot. I see left over '07 Ford non DPF's in the Truck Trader all over the place. I see very few GM & DC non-DPF trucks.

You agreed with me without even knowing it - because the next size up for Ford is the F650 - and that would be the GM 4500 comparision. And again the F650 is more capable with a different engine option (26k and over)...but we are talking the F550 size and capability which GM is missing out on...

As for the 2006 models, I had to get it from out of state inventory because of no stock in the surrounding states, so I really cant agree with much of what you said - Im not thumping my chest with my purchase, to each his own and just be happy what you bought

 

[Builder]

You agreed with me without even knowing it - because the next size up for Ford is the F650 - and that would be the GM 4500 comparision. And again the F650 is more capable with a different engine option (26k and over)...but we are talking the F550 size and capability which GM is missing out on...

Wellll, kinda. You can get a GM 6500. Really the GM4500/5500 series was designed by GM to exceed the capability of the 450/550, and in most cases, it clearly does that. however, it is too large for light work applications. The 6500 LoPro and bigger trucks are available with a variety of powerplants like the F-650.
I like the looks & features of the Kodiak 6500/7500/8500 more than the Ford. And look out for the 7.8L DMAX. It looks like a challenge even for the DT466!

"As for the 2006 models, I had to get it from out of state inventory because of no stock in the surrounding states, so I really cant agree with much of what you said - Im not thumping my chest with my purchase, to each his own and just be happy what you bought

Not 2006.
I said 2007! There's lots of 2007 Ford 6L's left in inventory! My local dealers have more '07 6L's in stock than new '08 6.4L's in stock!

 

[Builder]

I see left over '07 Ford non DPF's in the Truck Trader all over the place. I see very few GM & DC non-DPF trucks.
QUOTE]

maybe that is because Ford sell more of that particular unit that the General?

I dont know the sales figures but in my neck of the woods I would say Ford is outselling GM 3 to 1 on the 1 ton and up models.

Pick up a Truck trader and try to find an '07 GM HD diesel. Very tough to find. I had to travel 100 miles to get mine back in March because everyone wanted the last of the GM "dirty diesels".

fast forward to today-there's none left, but there's still a TON of '07 Ford 6L "dirty diesels" left on dealer lots. The reason is because nobody wants a 325/570 hp/tq diesel with a poor reputation and a 5 speed Ford transmission when they could wait for an improved '08 Ford or buy a '07 GM diesel with 360/650 hp/tq and a 6 speed allison with a better warranty.

 

[Dargo]

Well, I've now had a chance to drive a new diesel pickup from each of the big three. Apparently I'm spoiled with my truck and can't get over the sticker shock to go with a truck that feels anemic compared to my old '96 pick-um-up. I suppose that having (dyno tested) just under 500 rwhp and just over 1000 ft. lbs. of torque is what makes all of the new trucks feel really weak. And, no, my truck is not close to stock; and, no, my automatic transmission is not close to stock. My transmission is "KIT-47RE9602-ASSEMBLY-4-4WD" as listed on this Restoring the layer structure... page.

Besides, I'm a wee bit concerned about how any of the factorys would treat me on warranty work when I'm going to admit to them that I haul between 16k (about the minimum) to 23k (maximum) with my truck. Yes, I do like the looks of all three brands of new trucks better than my old Dodge. I actually like the looks and ride of the Ford the best. Even though I drove all of the trucks within a 2 day time frame, I'd be hard pressed to say which felt the fastest. No offense to anyone, but they all seemed to run reasonably strong and felt about even on power. The Ford truck did price out the highest. I don't know why.

So, for me, the bottom line is that I suppose I've decided to just stick with my old '96 model pickup. Go ahead and laugh and tell me that I'll have to start picking up the pieces that fall off. I'll have to be content with telling myself that it's been paid off for a long time now and it's darn strong. I don't really expect to have any powertrain problems, but I wouldn't be surprised to begin having some other issues. I guess I'll deal with it for being cheap. And finally, yes, I'll be sure to wave at y'all in your new trucks and try not to appear too green with envy.

*note*
I don't know why my link is named what it is. Sorry for not knowing how to properly put in a link.

 

[Diesel-ME]

*note*
I don't know why my link is named what it is. Sorry for not knowing how to properly put in a link.

Dargo,

Just type ANY WORDS that you want. Then go back and highlight them with your mouse and click on the "insert link" button and then paste in the actual link.

~paul