Wheels bolts coming loose

[Trev]

This isn't strictly tractor-related, but I've heard of similar problems with tractors.. so perhaps it's close enough..

I changed to my summer tires over the weekend, and didn't drive my car until this morning.. about 16 miles to work. I went out at lunch, and found a strange thumping feeling. On inspection, all five of the front left wheel bolts were finger loose! I had torqued them down using an air wrench and a blue "Torq-Stick" (sp?) and *made sure* they were all tight.

Some mechanics told me today that one should always drive a ways, torque them down again, and then repeat.. for a number of times.

Now I've never had a car in over 40+ years of driving which displayed this rather alarming trait. Has anyone else run into this, and what is the cause.. and possibly the cure? Is it possible or likely that I'm being a bit to conservative in my torquing them down? I thought the 90 ft/lbs was the standard.. but I notice most all garages just really nail them with the air wrench (I don't know what kind of air wrenches they use though, or what settings they are using.)

I also find that each Spring and each Fall, when I change wheels and tires, at least one of them has managed to weld/rust itself on so that only an enthusiastic beating on it with a rubber mallet will break it lose.. if I'm lucky. I've actually had times where I'd loosen the bolts a bit, then back the car into the street and nail the brakes to break the wheel loose! Is there something that can be sprayed or brushed on that will prevent this problem?

Thanks much for any/all thoughts about these issues!

Bob

 

[TractorLegend]

I think your torque sticks are lying.
If you use a torque WRENCH set at 75-80 lbs.ft on passenger car rims i would go as far as to say they would never self loosen on a steel rim. Alloys should be checked frequently, most of the better alloys have a steel insert for the lugs anyhow so those wouldn't self loosen.
I would NEVER trust a torque stick and an air gun to tighten and not recheck with a torque WRENCH.
And as you say...it never happened before the torque stick.

As far as the rust goes you can wire brush it as good as possible and apply some anti sieze compound (available at Napa and the like) to the face and inner diameter hole where the rim meets the drum/rotor/hub. Get the larger antiseize with a brush in the jar as opposed to the one time use fraction of an ounce package like you'd use on a few spark plugs.

 

[Trev]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I think your torque sticks are lying.)</font>

Yes, probably! I thought those were highly recommended at one point, but perhaps I mis-read. In any event, it's back to a real torque wrench for me. I've never once in my entire life seen a garage use a torque wrench.. they always use their air wrenches. Maybe it just comes with experience.. so they can get the correct torque fairly closely. That would be easier, but it must come at the cost of a *lot* of experience.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If you use a torque WRENCH set at 75-80 lbs.ft on passenger car rims i would go as far as to say they would never self loosen on a steel rim. Alloys should be checked frequently, most of the better alloys have a steel insert for the lugs anyhow so those wouldn't self loosen.)</font>

I'd say you are totally right.. based on never having it happen before!

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I would NEVER trust a torque stick and an air gun to tighten and not recheck with a torque WRENCH.
And as you say...it never happened before the torque stick.)</font>

Exactly.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( As far as the rust goes you can wire brush it as good as possible and apply some anti sieze compound (available at Napa and the like) to the face and inner diameter hole where the rim meets the drum/rotor/hub. Get the larger antiseize with a brush in the jar as opposed to the one time use fraction of an ounce package like you'd use on a few spark plugs. )</font>

Thanks.. I'll look for some of that. When I mounted them this last time I smeared a bit of JD high-pressure lube around the surfaces, but have no idea if that will work. I'll stop in tonight and look for the anti-sieze stuff. Never heard of it before.. but sounds like just the ticket.

Thanks for taking the time to reply!

Bob

 

[Egon]

Trev: Up here in the Frozen North all the tire shops ask you to come back after several days so they can retorque the nuts. They use a manual torque wrench for this. Think this has something to do about liability.

My air impact wrench [ so popular no there is no name on it ] seems to have about the required torque. Torquing with the wheel off the ground or on the ground can make a difference if the wheel is not correctly placed before the weight is placed on it and it is tightened.

Buy a pair of rubber dishwashing gloves if you intend to use some anti seize compound. Don't slap any mosquitoes when their is compound on the gloves. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Egon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Trev]

Hi Egon,

I just got a note from a buddy who, admittedly a bit cynical, says that garages love to over-tighten rims.. leads to more tire sales and alignments. I don't know.. but I've heard a lot of people complain about over-tightening by garages.

Thanks for the advice about the dishwashing gloves! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Also, we no longer have any mosquitos here. I went nuts last year and shot them all (burned up a lot of 12-guage buckshot doing it too!) /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Bob

 

[Michael_E_Tx]

Both Sam's Club and Discount Tire have followed impact wrench mounting with a manual torque wrench. I've only bought two pairs of tires in the last three years, so that's 100% in my recent experience.

 

[Egon]

we no longer have any mosquitos here

Trev:

Does that mean it's still cold??

Think the tire shops have had to tighten up on torque specs because of aluminun rims and lighter rotors being warped or damaged.

Egon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[JimR]

In 10 years of working on cars for a living and many many more of doing all my own repairs. I have never seen a tight wheel loosen up on its own. I have seen cars break wheel studs from overtightened nuts. This goes to say that there are two things that could have gone wrong here.
(1) The nuts were snugged up but not tightened because you were in a hurry. Trust me, it happens more than you think. I've done it myself and the wheel will loosen up within a 10-20 miles if not less. (2) Your tool is way off.

 

[Trev]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( we no longer have any mosquitos here

Trev:

Does that mean it's still cold??)</font>

That would be a loose translation, yes. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Think the tire shops have had to tighten up on torque specs ... )</font>

Tighten up on torque specs? Pun intended? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I do worry about the torque, though. It's *expensive* to replace parts like that. Guess I erred too far in the opposite direction.. which is arguably a worse mistake! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Trev]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( In 10 years of working on cars for a living and many many more of doing all my own repairs. I have never seen a tight wheel loosen up on its own. I have seen cars break wheel studs from overtightened nuts. This goes to say that there are two things that could have gone wrong here.
(1) The nuts were snugged up but not tightened because you were in a hurry. Trust me, it happens more than you think. I've done it myself and the wheel will loosen up within a 10-20 miles if not less. (2) Your tool is way off. )</font>

Either scenario is possible, I'll admit. I'd vote for the tool being way off, though. I'm working in a dirt-floor garage, and once I get the wheel on I can't just run to the next wheel.. I have to lower the jack, move my equipment, etc. So I hit each of the five bolts (these are not studs with nuts on them, but bolts which go through the wheel (which is a pain) multiple times with the airwrench/torque stick until none of them will tighten any further.

Now I'll go back to my pre-airwrench days and do it right with a real torque wrench.

I wish there was an easy way to see how much torque is actually being applied by the torque stick arrangement, but I recall Bird telling me a long time ago that the equipment to do that would probably cost as much as the car. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif