When adding lights to a tractor......

[Gobblin Tom]

40a rated.. then safe to use 32a continously.

saving some to charge the battery and dash and solenoids.... say.. 10a.. that leaves you 22a for incandescents..that's about 300w of lamps.. thus your pair of 55 = 110, then figure the built in lamps.. etc.. unless that thing has monster lamps already.. you are way in the green...


soundguy

Thanks soundguy! Does that mean I could run 3 or 4, 55w halogens with no problem?

 

[dcyrilc]

Thanks soundguy! Does that mean I could run 3 or 4, 55w halogens with no problem?

I'm assuming that you don't have any lights on the tractor now?

Looking at JDParts, your tractor main harness is already wired for lights. You just need to pick up the switch and plug the harness into it. Then add the lighting harness across the axle if it's not already there (if you have flashers, it will be) and plug into the other end for running to the lights themselves.

As for quantity of lights, The row-crop version runs five lights on the factory harness. Three flood lamps and two headlamps.

 

[Cruisin]

40a rated.. then safe to use 32a continously.

saving some to charge the battery and dash and solenoids.... say.. 10a.. that leaves you 22a for incandescents..that's about 300w of lamps.. thus your pair of 55 = 110, then figure the built in lamps.. etc.. unless that thing has monster lamps already.. you are way in the green...


soundguy

Never heard of a "duty cycle" on an alternator... Any references to support that?

"It must be true, I read it on the internet!"

 

[Soundguy]

watch the wattage ont he oem wire.. if adding 2 lamps.. it's probably ok.. if adding 4 lamps I'd run the existing harness wire to a relay as a trigger, then source new wiring from the battery or a fusebox hot tap for the other lamps.


to answer the prev question.. 4 55w lamps is 220.. if the tractor has 2 35w-45w lamps plus a 5w blinker you are you are liely fine.., running the calc at 14.4 nominal charge volts with 22a available to use.. as long as the battery is up.. the 10a charge and dash cluster we set aside will likely go up, meaning you could have 2 55w tractor lamps, plus a 5w flasher.. plus the 4 added 55w lamps... just don't kick em all on right after startup befor ethe battery has replenished.. give the system a few minutes to top the bat back off after starting... then you can get all incandescent on it..

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

Never heard of a "duty cycle" on an alternator... Any references to support that?

"It must be true, I read it on the internet!"

duty cycle may be a poor choice of words.. however.. many electronic devices are much happier running at about 80% of their rated load, if you are running them continously. It's more of a rule of thumb for happy, health electronics. If it's rated for 40, it will do 40.. however I'd lay some green down that if you took 2 identical units and ran one at 40 and one at 32 continously, the 32a one would have a longer service life..

references? I could send you a copy of my engineering degree

naw.. just a rule of thumb I like to follow.

Using this rule, I've yet to ever burn up a switch, wire, genny, alternator.. or other load device.. and I know many, MANY people who have exceeded their devices rated specs and HAVE burnt them up.. repeatedly For some devices it's a thermal mass vs cooling issue. Think of a 600hp auto engine and the lil inch thick radiator. sure, you can stomp the gas pedal and hit the passing lane making 600 hp for 35 seconds to pass.. and the cooling system can handle it. however on a endurance track, going round and round at 600hp.. that same radiator will max out . I can also full field a 120w rated 6v genny and get 180w out of her for a few minutes on the bench before solder starts flingin out of her...

Tell you what.. i probably don't have a clue what i'm talking about..so go and load her up to a full 40a rating.. that's 576w to play with... that's 10 - 55w halogens, plus a few watts left over for the blinker, fuel shutoff solenoid, and dash lamps... as for charging the bat? who needs it once yer running right?

soundguy

 

[Gobblin Tom]

duty cycle may be a poor choice of words.. however.. many electronic devices are much happier running at about 80% of their rated load, if you are running them continously. It's more of a rule of thumb for happy, health electronics. If it's rated for 40, it will do 40.. however I'd lay some green down that if you took 2 identical units and ran one at 40 and one at 32 continously, the 32a one would have a longer service life..

references? I could send you a copy of my engineering degree

naw.. just a rule of thumb I like to follow.

Using this rule, I've yet to ever burn up a switch, wire, genny, alternator.. or other load device.. and I know many, MANY people who have exceeded their devices rated specs and HAVE burnt them up.. repeatedly For some devices it's a thermal mass vs cooling issue. Think of a 600hp auto engine and the lil inch thick radiator. sure, you can stomp the gas pedal and hit the passing lane making 600 hp for 35 seconds to pass.. and the cooling system can handle it. however on a endurance track, going round and round at 600hp.. that same radiator will max out . I can also full field a 120w rated 6v genny and get 180w out of her for a few minutes on the bench before solder starts flingin out of her...

Tell you what.. i probably don't have a clue what i'm talking about..so go and load her up to a full 40a rating.. that's 576w to play with... that's 10 - 55w halogens, plus a few watts left over for the blinker, fuel shutoff solenoid, and dash lamps... as for charging the bat? who needs it once yer running right?

soundguy

Ok so it sounds like I would be just fine running 4 extra 55w lights, sounds like I could run 4, 100w lights if I wanted to (100w prob easier to get at walmart)? It really sounds like if I ever have any electrical questions I'm gonna ask you!!!:thumbsup: I will check into that factory lighting harness or should I just run from the battery with my own switch?

 

[Cruisin]

duty cycle may be a poor choice of words.. however.. many electronic devices are much happier running at about 80% of their rated load, if you are running them continously. It's more of a rule of thumb for happy, health electronics. If it's rated for 40, it will do 40.. however I'd lay some green down that if you took 2 identical units and ran one at 40 and one at 32 continously, the 32a one would have a longer service life..

references? I could send you a copy of my engineering degree

naw.. just a rule of thumb I like to follow.

Using this rule, I've yet to ever burn up a switch, wire, genny, alternator.. or other load device.. and I know many, MANY people who have exceeded their devices rated specs and HAVE burnt them up.. repeatedly For some devices it's a thermal mass vs cooling issue. Think of a 600hp auto engine and the lil inch thick radiator. sure, you can stomp the gas pedal and hit the passing lane making 600 hp for 35 seconds to pass.. and the cooling system can handle it. however on a endurance track, going round and round at 600hp.. that same radiator will max out . I can also full field a 120w rated 6v genny and get 180w out of her for a few minutes on the bench before solder starts flingin out of her...

Tell you what.. i probably don't have a clue what i'm talking about..so go and load her up to a full 40a rating.. that's 576w to play with... that's 10 - 55w halogens, plus a few watts left over for the blinker, fuel shutoff solenoid, and dash lamps... as for charging the bat? who needs it once yer running right?

soundguy

"references? I could send you a copy of my engineering degree "
Yeah, I got one of those too. That's where I learned to either rate things at their actual capacity with a safety factor, or state a qualifier like a duty cycle for lack of a better term. It's fairly safe to say most things will last longer if run at 80%. Why not try 60%??? Probably go even longer there!

"I know many, MANY people who have exceeded their devices rated specs and HAVE burnt them up.. repeatedly "
Again, it's one of these "many, many people" things. How many alternators have you seen "burned up" by running at capacity? In fact, how many alternators have you seen burned up at all? (Heresay has that most alternator failures are bearing failures.)

I don't want to argue about it, and indeed I'm done, but I think most of us would appreciate factual information or, a qualifier that a statement is an opinion rather than a documentable hard fact or manufacturer's rating. Several people here are aware of your engineering degree and assume that when hard numbers like 32 amps are bantied about, there's a real engineering reason.

I really wanted to know if there actually was some alternator capacity information I'd missed.

 

[dcyrilc]

Ok so it sounds like I would be just fine running 4 extra 55w lights, sounds like I could run 4, 100w lights if I wanted to (100w prob easier to get at walmart)? It really sounds like if I ever have any electrical questions I'm gonna ask you!!!:thumbsup: I will check into that factory lighting harness or should I just run from the battery with my own switch?

That's really your call. I prefer things to look factory rather than home made. If I can use factory parts, I usually will. But then that's just me. From a usability standpoint, I'm not sure it matters. For resalability later, the factory look never hurts. Some here on TBN can make it from scratch and you would swear it was factory, I've never had that skill which is probably why I stick to factory parts where possible.

I do make changes, but try to document them in my tech manual when i do and still try to stay as close to factory as possible.


Edit: It makes it much easier to troubleshoot an issue years later as well when I've put a copy of the changes into the manual.

 

[Gobblin Tom]

Yeah I know what you are saying, I am very particular when I do things. I could not spend that much money on a tractor and do shotty work to it. I will definitely check out the factory stuff 1st and go from there. I just want it to be bright out on them cold winter nights!

 

[Soundguy]

one merely needs to google 'alternator duty cycle' to find out that it is not an open and closed kind of deal..

it all depends onthe manufacture and 'HOW' they rated thier alt. was it's given rating a 100% duty cycle.. or a peak output? only the manufacturer knows. did they take a peak, derate for safety margin, then use that # in marketing as their rating?

without those specifics, I like to err on the side of a safety margin. same with fuses and wires.. in leiu of a specified duty cycle, 80% of stated rating has never gotten me in trouble.


As for most alt failures being bearings..? that's at least NOT what I have observed in the antique tractor restoration circles I fly in. bearing failure is likely the least I have experienced..

http://wpnet.us/2009-Electrical.pdf

this link, towards the end actually provides some usefull info on specific ford alts, and how they rate them, vs idle, and max. looking at those rated specs, it appears ford is rating those alts at at least 95% duty cycle.

nice to have hard data. I couldn't find specs for the common delco models.. or other forieng tractor models.


just going by what I stated was a rule of thumb for safety. again.. hard to get hurt with a built in margin..
soundguy

"references? I could send you a copy of my engineering degree "
Yeah, I got one of those too. That's where I learned to either rate things at their actual capacity with a safety factor, or state a qualifier like a duty cycle for lack of a better term. It's fairly safe to say most things will last longer if run at 80%. Why not try 60%??? Probably go even longer there!

"I know many, MANY people who have exceeded their devices rated specs and HAVE burnt them up.. repeatedly "
Again, it's one of these "many, many people" things. How many alternators have you seen "burned up" by running at capacity? In fact, how many alternators have you seen burned up at all? (Heresay has that most alternator failures are bearing failures.)

I don't want to argue about it, and indeed I'm done, but I think most of us would appreciate factual information or, a qualifier that a statement is an opinion rather than a documentable hard fact or manufacturer's rating. Several people here are aware of your engineering degree and assume that when hard numbers like 32 amps are bantied about, there's a real engineering reason.

I really wanted to know if there actually was some alternator capacity information I'd missed.