When did John Deere begin the Right to Repair problems?

   / When did John Deere begin the Right to Repair problems?
  • Thread Starter
#11  
Any brand of off-road machinery with a programmable computer and proprietary software. In the Tier IV world we live in that's 98% of every diesel powered machine 26 hp and up for starters.

So when did they start doing that? I don't have any intention of buying new anyway, but should I be looking at 2010 and older? 2000?

Surely it's not any computer system, my 1979 Ford truck has electronic ignition, which I think is technically a computer, but I doubt any JD with electronic ignition can tell if my oil filter has the correct chip in it.

I've tried googling to find when they started this, but can't seem to pin it down. Or for that matter, which models they phased it into, and when.
 
   / When did John Deere begin the Right to Repair problems? #12  
So when did they start doing that? I don't have any intention of buying new anyway, but should I be looking at 2010 and older? 2000?

Surely it's not any computer system, my 1979 Ford truck has electronic ignition, which I think is technically a computer, but I doubt any JD with electronic ignition can tell if my oil filter has the correct chip in it.

I've tried googling to find when they started this, but can't seem to pin it down. Or for that matter, which models they phased it into, and when.
They started with the largest sizes and it has been trickling down, for somethings that makes sense; there are tractors out there the size of mining equipment that need perimeter cameras to see the ground. They are roughly the size of a two story house.

Here is a picture of a guy standing beside the front of a 9520RX. JD classifies their 7RX-9RX as their "Large tractors", and I believe that the 7-9 is the standard row straddle.

side_engine_panel.jpg
 
   / When did John Deere begin the Right to Repair problems? #13  
So when did they start doing that? I don't have any intention of buying new anyway, but should I be looking at 2010 and older? 2000?

Surely it's not any computer system, my 1979 Ford truck has electronic ignition, which I think is technically a computer, but I doubt any JD with electronic ignition can tell if my oil filter has the correct chip in it.

I've tried googling to find when they started this, but can't seem to pin it down. Or for that matter, which models they phased it into, and when.
Lawsuits and court decisions specific to motor vehicles have shaped manufacturer responses concerning the ability of the private sector to access what was proprietary intellectual property. Similar challenges in the off-road equipment sector are decades behind the motor vehicle industry. There is certainly proprietary IP incorporated in some tractors built in the 1990's controlling transmission clutch packs, electronic draft control and certain engine monitoring systems. The question of when did this all begin has no across the board answer, you need to research specific machines and applications to develop individual answers.
 
   / When did John Deere begin the Right to Repair problems? #14  
You need to buy all of the manuals when you buy a new piece of equipment, not just the owner's and service manuals (there are more).

Most Tier 4 machines allow for diagnostics through the user interface in the machine. The electronic/diagnostic manual (not the owner's manual) will walk you through how to do it. You can view fault codes, look at input/output signals, and do calibrations etc... All through the display built into the machine.

I have a drawer in my toolbox with jumper plugs to access technician mode on various machines, all of which can be bought for ~$50.

There are things you need a laptop with dealer software to do like software updates etc... Average Joe isn't doing that stuff at home though. If you have the money there are two companies offering aftermarket diagnostic software for off highway equipment, it's expensive though.
 
   / When did John Deere begin the Right to Repair problems? #15  
You can buy all the Kubota or New Holland workshop/service manuals you want. You won't have a full list of the fault codes and you won't get a derated engine back to full power under certain conditions without diagnostic software installed on a laptop.
Other brands may or may not be the same.
 
   / When did John Deere begin the Right to Repair problems? #16  
You can buy all the Kubota or New Holland workshop/service manuals you want. You won't have a full list of the fault codes and you won't get a derated engine back to full power under certain conditions without diagnostic software installed on a laptop.
Other brands may or may not be the same.
Good ol feature creep, a salesman's wet dream.

The 0.1% that something might happen and cause an expensive repair means another sensor, another code, another model, and another commission check!
 
   / When did John Deere begin the Right to Repair problems? #18  
You can buy all the Kubota or New Holland workshop/service manuals you want. You won't have a full list of the fault codes and you won't get a derated engine back to full power under certain conditions without diagnostic software installed on a laptop.
Other brands may or may not be the same.
Workshop manuals are just that, workshop manuals. You need the diagnostic books for whatever series machine you are working on. Kubota I can not really speak to as they don't really have issues that often and all I've had to do is read and clear codes. New Holland on the other hand you can do all kinds of stuff, read and clear faults, recalibrate clutches, replace components... Sure there's things you can't do, but you can do a lot of stuff without a laptop.

See the attached pictures...
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20210630_175513.jpeg
    IMG_20210630_175513.jpeg
    341 KB · Views: 152
  • IMG_20210630_175616.jpeg
    IMG_20210630_175616.jpeg
    326.6 KB · Views: 183
  • IMG_20210630_175916.jpeg
    IMG_20210630_175916.jpeg
    358.7 KB · Views: 157
   / When did John Deere begin the Right to Repair problems? #19  
R&D has no shortage of good and bad ideas, marketing and shareholders have a habit of pushing things that are either not ready or not needed.

Dieselgate showed both sides of that coin. If money were not involved all diesels would be half the size and a rotary configuration with twice the power density. Currently they have languished for the last 20 years and now on the cusp of commercialization they might end up in the bin with the rest since it is 1909 again and electrics are back! (Old man Porsche is likely rolling in his grave since they started making one again).

As far as where did computer controlled tractors start in the earliest? My bet is on Lamborghini, they still make tractors, or Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, likely towards the end or WWII (autonomous army and mine clearing anyone?)
 
   / When did John Deere begin the Right to Repair problems? #20  
Well I deal with Kubota and NH up close and personal every day at a dealership. Workshop manual is Kubotaspeak for a service manual. If it isn't in a WSM the guy on the street isn't getting access to it, similar to him not having access to the stuff you have pictured.
And like I said, you aren't eliminating a de-rate on either brand by looking at a display and punching buttons on the dash or A pillar.

But those facts are the root of the problem. BTW
I'll let you guess all night who started it. I really don't know or care.
 
Last edited:
 
Top