When do you replace a battery?

[aczlan]

1. Replaced the OEM battery in my wife's '01 Caravan last year.

2. Replaced the 2 year old Napa battery in my Volvo last year as well (had a bad cell). For the difference in price ($30?), I upgraded to a slightly taller battery with 1.5 times the CCA rating and twice the warranty (the 2yo battery came with the car).

3. The '97 Dodge 1500 I am driving right now has a battery that has been there since at least 2007... Not sure exactly how old it is, but it was in the truck when my inlaws got it late 2006 or early 2007.

Aaron Z

 

[JDgreen227]

When low voltage from a weak battery is sent to the starter, it pulls more current, spins slower, and take longer to start the vehicle. I do not see how this could extend the life of the starter. So you may have something there. I have had a few starter failures, but not recently. A battery is much easier and cheaper to replace than a starter.

No doubt with todays electronic emission controls and fuel injection, the starters have to work much less than the older models did which contributes to the longer life. The sole starter failure I have had that was on my '73 Nova, the starter drive failed and would not release properly, which ruined the flywheel. The dealership claimed I repeatedly engaged the starter with the engine running and caused the drive to fail, just so they could avoid a warranty claim. That soured me on GM cars for the next twenty years.

 

[Jay4200]

Do you wait until the vehicle will not start, or do you use other criteria?

I keep float chargers on all of my batteries, so I don't ever replace them.

That's not exactly true - I did recently change the OEM battery in my '01 Tundra, but that was because the mount rotted off, the battery started bouncing around, the battery caps popped off, then all of the electrolyte splashed out (it was almost 10 y/o at the time). I tried filling it with beer, but it didn't work, so I had to get a new battery. In that case, to answer your question, I waited until the vehicle wouldn't start. Oh well, good 'till 2020 or so.

Extended battery life is just one more terrific perk that comes with living in a cold climate...

JayC

 

[JDgreen227]

I keep float chargers on all of my batteries, so I don't ever replace them.

That's not exactly true - I did recently change the OEM battery in my '01 Tundra, but that was because the mount rotted off, the battery started bouncing around, the battery caps popped off, then all of the electrolyte splashed out (it was almost 10 y/o at the time). I tried filling it with beer, but it didn't work, so I had to get a new battery. In that case, to answer your question, I waited until the vehicle wouldn't start. Oh well, good 'till 2020 or so.

Extended battery life is just one more terrific perk that comes with living in a cold climate...

JayC

Please refer to posts #34 and 35 here...I think cold weather is harder on batteries, myself.

 

[Jay4200]

Please refer to posts #34 and 35 here...I think cold weather is harder on batteries, myself.

Nope. Damage due to over-discharge aside, the lifetime of a battery is number of charge/discharge cycles. Battery capacity is reduced at low temps, but there is an inverse relationship between this number of lifetime cycles and temperature.

You'll note that all of us that claim 10+ year battery life live in a cold climate such as New England, Upstate NY, Canada, etc. All them Florida guys only get 3-4 years out of one .

JayC

 

[ultrarunner]

I load test when I suspect a battery is near the end of life...

It provides independent proof of battery condition.

So far, the OEM battery in Mom's 2001 Corrolla is the longest lasting I have come across in thousands of vehicles going back to when I worked at a Dealership.

The vehicle charging system plays in integral part... too much and the electrolyte boils out and not enough and sulfation increases.

I missed having a load tester after leaving the Dealership so I bought my own... it was about $100 back in 1980.

One more thing... a weak battery or one that no longer can spin the starter at speed is hard on the entire electrical system...

 

[JDgreen227]

I load test when I suspect a battery is near the end of life...

It provides independent proof of battery condition.

So far, the OEM battery in Mom's 2001 Corrolla is the longest lasting I have come across in thousands of vehicles going back to when I worked at a Dealership.

The vehicle charging system plays in integral part... too much and the electrolyte boils out and not enough and sulfation increases.

I missed having a load tester after leaving the Dealership so I bought my own... it was about $100 back in 1980.

One more thing... a weak battery or one that no longer can spin the starter at speed is hard on the entire electrical system...

Used to be you were supposed to have one CCA per cubic inch of engine displacement, minimum. And yet today...my 364 cubic inch GMC has a battery with 770 CCA, and the wife's Saturn has 182 cubic inches and a battery with 650 CCA. Makes me wonder why they put such a huge battery in the Saturn when it doesn't require all that CCA.

 

[fbiwrench]

CCA of most vehicles now is higher because starter designs are different than say 20 years ago, requiring a short burst of power than a long current draw of power. Here in Texas we always have shop replacing a bunch of batteries whenever the temps crack over a 100 degrees.
As far as jumper cables go that is great but don't put them in the trunk of many newer cars!!.....can't get to them when battery is dead, can't open trunk with a key any more!!
What is with that Detroit???

 

[RoyJackson]

As far as jumper cables go that is great but don't put them in the trunk of many newer cars!!.....can't get to them when battery is dead, can't open trunk with a key any more!!
What is with that Detroit???

There's normally a workaround for that dead battery-trunk locked problem. It's buried (and I mean buried) in the owner's manuals.
An easier way to go is to do a web search for something like "Opening trunk on {insert year and model of car} with dead battery". Odds are, other folks have already had the same problem.

 

[JDgreen227]

CCA of most vehicles now is higher because starter designs are different than say 20 years ago, requiring a short burst of power than a long current draw of power. Here in Texas we always have shop replacing a bunch of batteries whenever the temps crack over a 100 degrees.
As far as jumper cables go that is great but don't put them in the trunk of many newer cars!!.....can't get to them when battery is dead, can't open trunk with a key any more!!
What is with that Detroit???

Can't open trunk with the key??? That is news to me. Thanks for the tip about the higher CCA...hmm, I gotta do some research about the trunk issue. And you know, it irks me no end that so many cars today only have a door lock cylinder on the drivers side door, we have three cars and I hate to carry all the flippin' remotes around and would LOVE to be able to unlock the front passenger side doors with a key sometimes.

 

[crazyal]

I won a BatteryMINder from a company called VDO. I had a battery that the voltage was about half what it should be and when charged would quickly drop back down even if just sitting. It was out of my dozer so it's about twice the size of a normal battery. So I thought I would try the batteryminder and it didn't do a thing. Since it was also a charger I tossed it in the corner and figured I had an expensive float charger.

So this winter has played havoc with the older batteries I have. The 580k has two wired in parallel and the dump truck has a semi battery in it. All three of them I've charged with no luck. I have a Schumacher Speedcharger that can check your charging system as well as how much (percentage) of a charge the battery has. No matter how much of a charge I tried putting into it or the voltage I could never get past 30%. If I tried starting anything with it the battery would quickly die.

As a last ditch effort I pulled out the batteryminder and tried to charge that battery. A red light came on saying that it was in maintenance mode. Well I forgot about it for a few days and when I got sick of jump starting the dumptruck so I could plow I swapped it with the one the batteryminder had been charging/ desulfating. To my surprise it had a ton of power, easily started the truck in below 0 temps (large v-8). I decided to put the SpeedCharger on it to see what it read, 90%.

So now I have the battery from the dump truck being charged by it. It's been charging for at least two weeks and when I get a chance I'll check the electrolyte level and see how much of a charge it has (I think it's something like 1600 or 1800 cca so I don't want to replace it). So far the battery I revived with the BatteryMINder is working great. The plow truck has an electric (starter motor) style hydraulic pump for the blade. I'm not 100% sold on the batteryMINder yet but it just saved me having to replace a $100 Interstate Workaholic 950 cca battery.

 

[BobRip]

I won a BatteryMINder from a company called VDO. I had a battery that the voltage was about half what it should be and when charged would quickly drop back down even if just sitting. It was out of my dozer so it's about twice the size of a normal battery. So I thought I would try the batteryminder and it didn't do a thing. Since it was also a charger I tossed it in the corner and figured I had an expensive float charger.

So this winter has played havoc with the older batteries I have. The 580k has two wired in parallel and the dump truck has a semi battery in it. All three of them I've charged with no luck. I have a Schumacher Speedcharger that can check your charging system as well as how much (percentage) of a charge the battery has. No matter how much of a charge I tried putting into it or the voltage I could never get past 30%. If I tried starting anything with it the battery would quickly die.

As a last ditch effort I pulled out the batteryminder and tried to charge that battery. A red light came on saying that it was in maintenance mode. Well I forgot about it for a few days and when I got sick of jump starting the dumptruck so I could plow I swapped it with the one the batteryminder had been charging/ desulfating. To my surprise it had a ton of power, easily started the truck in below 0 temps (large v-8). I decided to put the SpeedCharger on it to see what it read, 90%.

So now I have the battery from the dump truck being charged by it. It's been charging for at least two weeks and when I get a chance I'll check the electrolyte level and see how much of a charge it has (I think it's something like 1600 or 1800 cca so I don't want to replace it). So far the battery I revived with the BatteryMINder is working great. The plow truck has an electric (starter motor) style hydraulic pump for the blade. I'm not 100% sold on the batteryMINder yet but it just saved me having to replace a $100 Interstate Workaholic 950 cca battery.

Please keep us updated on this.

 

[EE_Bota]

My Battery Minder failed early, and I got very little service out of it. I bought a different brand that does the same thing. My buddy has a third brand that does a similar thing.

I first read about it 1991 in an article about large UPS for data centers. Apparently the charging voltage is not enough to get the sulfation off once formed. It takes about 3V/cell to do that, but that will quickly ruin a battery. Smart designers produced chargers that have ~18V spikes with a duty cycle on the spikes that does not exceed charging voltage on average. It is like pulse width modulated DC.

When I was a kid, I saw this first hand, but I didn't know what I was seeing. I wanted 6V battery for something, and Dad assured me that there was a new one at the barn. I tested the voltage at 2mv..dead as a hammer. It wouldn't charge up at the 6v setting, so I would switch to 12v setting for around 5 seconds every so often.* It would then charge for around 15 minutes. I repeated that off and on for a few days, and it reached full charge as best I cold tell (it would start the target device.)

12V applied to 6 volt battery is pretty hot, since 9V would have been a good value for blasting the sulfates off a 6V battery.

I don't advocate doing what I did. I was a kid, but it was outdoors, and I stood well back. I knew how to use a meter, but other than that, I didn't know much about it, except I needed a battery, and I didn't have lots of money.


*That basic battery charger had a analog current gauge, and that is really handy for seeing what is going on with a battery. Sometimes I will log the amps at intervals and note the time and get an idea of the amp-hours put into the battery.
Frequently, it is easy to tell that a given battery charges up too quickly (current drops low quickly, and voltage has already recovered) which means that the battery has lost capacity. Desulfating chargers can sometimes recover some of that.

 

[ultrarunner]

My Battery Minder failed early, and I got very little service out of it. I bought a different brand that does the same thing. My buddy has a third brand that does a similar thing.

I first read about it 1991 in an article about large UPS for data centers. Apparently the charging voltage is not enough to get the sulfation off once formed. It takes about 3V/cell to do that, but that will quickly ruin a battery. Smart designers produced chargers that have ~18V spikes with a duty cycle on the spikes that does not exceed charging voltage on average. It is like pulse width modulated DC.

When I was a kid, I saw this first hand, but I didn't know what I was seeing. I wanted 6V battery for something, and Dad assured me that there was a new one at the barn. I tested the voltage at 2mv..dead as a hammer. It wouldn't charge up at the 6v setting, so I would switch to 12v setting for around 5 seconds every so often.* It would then charge for around 15 minutes. I repeated that off and on for a few days, and it reached full charge as best I cold tell (it would start the target device.)

12V applied to 6 volt battery is pretty hot, since 9V would have been a good value for blasting the sulfates off a 6V battery.

I don't advocate doing what I did. I was a kid, but it was outdoors, and I stood well back. I knew how to use a meter, but other than that, I didn't know much about it, except I needed a battery, and I didn't have lots of money.


*That basic battery charger had a analog current gauge, and that is really handy for seeing what is going on with a battery. Sometimes I will log the amps at intervals and note the time and get an idea of the amp-hours put into the battery.
Frequently, it is easy to tell that a given battery charges up too quickly (current drops low quickly, and voltage has already recovered) which means that the battery has lost capacity. Desulfating chargers can sometimes recover some of that.

Lots of us with seldom used 6 and 8 volt batteries do this...

I have an old commercial charger... small and weighs about 40lbs... Every so often would flip to 12 volt for more like 15 seconds and back to 6... it has worked many times.

If I were to leave it on 12 volt... eventually the circuit breaker in the charger would trip... did that once because the batter was dead and had been so for about 2 years... I got called away on something else and left with it on 12 volt... it did make a recovery...

 

[JDgreen227]

Lots of us with seldom used 6 and 8 volt batteries do this...

I have an old commercial charger... small and weighs about 40lbs... Every so often would flip to 12 volt for more like 15 seconds and back to 6... it has worked many times.

If I were to leave it on 12 volt... eventually the circuit breaker in the charger would trip... did that once because the batter was dead and had been so for about 2 years... I got called away on something else and left with it on 12 volt... it did make a recovery...

I have a charger with the 50 amp engine start feature...wonder of I could desulphate an older 12 volt battery with it using your method of flipping it to 50 amps for a few seconds and then back to 10 amps. Anybody ever try this ?

 

[chopped]

I wondered that too..

 

[KennedyDiesel]

Any Starter and Alternator guy worth his salt will tell you to replace the battery(s) at the first sign of weakness. This is not a ploy to sell you something it is to protect his work from being prematurely destroyed. Quite often a battery failure will be followed closely by an alternator failure and vice-versa. Essentially the alternator works double time trying to recharge the weak battery plus run accessories. "An alternator is not meant to be a battery charger, rather a battery maintainer" to paraphrase my starter/alt guy...

 

[EE_Bota]

I have a charger with the 50 amp engine start feature...wonder of I could desulphate an older 12 volt battery with it using your method of flipping it to 50 amps for a few seconds and then back to 10 amps. Anybody ever try this ?

I don't know what voltage that would wind up being. You could test to see I suppose.

 

[JDgreen227]

I don't know what voltage that would wind up being. You could test to see I suppose.

Too cold here right now (20 degrees) to do it outside and I have serious reservations about trying the idea in our basement...

 

[EE_Bota]

Too cold here right now (20 degrees) to do it outside and I have serious reservations about trying the idea in our basement...

Your reservations are very wise! :thumbsup: