Where does it stop?

[jeff9366]

Hydrostatic tractors excel at tackling hilly terrain. I have had one gear and two hydrostatic tractors here, and let me tell you, Hydrostat is far easier to operate and far safer.

-- X 4 --

 

[jenkinsph]

Having owned 2 gear and 3 hydrostatic tractors, I would disagree with "many that know" and anyone else that says hydrostat is not good for hills. Hydrostatic tractors excel at tackling hilly terrain. And I know what I am talking about, I live near Branson Missouri, and we have two kinds of ground here, up hill and down hill. If you want any flat ground you have to make it. I have had one gear and two hydrostatic tractors here, and let me tell you, Hydrostat is far easier to operate and far safer. I have no idea where the idea that a hydro is not safe on hills comes from.

Ignorance is the leading reason why someone would choose gears over a hydro for steep hills. There are people out there that feel they are masters of a clutch and gear transmission there for they don't need a silly hydro transmission.

People that have used both hydro and gear know that a hydro is safer on hills because the transmission allows you to feather the movement without fear of free wheeling or moving abruptly and causing a roll over. I don't usually like to argue with "gearheads" as to which transmission is better but I would hate to read about some ones death.

Gear tractors are great for farm land because they are more efficient to operate. Most people with small acreages that use their tractors for a variety of tasks are better served with a hydro tractor. I am old enough to remember when automatic transmissions in vehicles were problematic but these hydro transmissions are completely different designs. Some people have a hard time getting past it.

 

[k0ua]

While I probably have more hours with gear tractors than Hydro tractors in around 25 years operation, for most tasks a Hydro machine not only easier on the operator (especially older operators) but is actually superior for some tasks such as loader work or any kind of work that requires lots of directional changes and speed changes. Gear tractors excel at constant work, like plowing or mowing that does not require a lot of speed changes as they put more of the engines available power to the ground without the loss inherent in hydro transmissions. But if mowing requires a lot of ground speed changes due to terrain or obstacles, then hydro machines will be superior there too. Hydro machines are without a doubt superior in hilly terrain. I will gladly give up some horsepower to the ground for the gains in operator efficiency, safety and convenience of a hydrostatic transmission.

 

[newbury]

So I started out intending to buy a 25hp tractor with a loader and backhoe. <snip>

So for a lower hour usage, loader, hoe and mower tractor, about where is the "best bang for the buck"? Is the small framer like the BX25D and 1025R the better value, or with all other things equal like trailering capacity etc., is the better value in like the L series lower numbers or the deere 3 family? Other brands included.

I do want to get into some custom work, but only for hobby money. Stuff like clearing a pad for a small out building or mowing down briers and digging a trench for a water line etc. I like the idea of full cat1 three point vs. cat1 limited.
<snip>

"Best bang for buck" and backhoe are a rare combination. With a small tractor ( less than 30HP ) you will need a subframe. If you can make it yourself, great. But if you need to buy one the subframes alone seem to run around $1K.

As others wrote more details about your usage and terrain would be helpful.

<snip>
We have a deere 955 here on the farm I work on. We bought a fel for it, but it sucks. Though the 955 hydro has been bullet proof and in 3k hours never a hickup, it is not very foot friendly, and somewhat jerky on rougher terrain. But gears, either dry clutch or torque converter, with a foot throttle, just work for me. I think the new, more refined hydros are way better and smoother than 25 years ago. I can, and am more than willing to get used to them if I need to. But if I dont need to, then I think I will be happier to spend time on the tractor if it has a foot throttle and a shuttle or "johnson bar" type reverser of some kind.

Here's a link to a machine finder ad for a 4 family deere without a hoe at a dealer near me. Maybe an hour drive and with the rainy windy weather, I'd happily be driving to check things out than cleaning gutters and picking up sticks. It's a low hour used rig, so the price reflects it and I can deal from there a bit. Then buy an aftermarket hoe or something maybe?

If your looking in the $30K price range there are a LOT of new tractors NOT the color of money that would fit your usage.

Also just to ad, this purchase is for me personally. We have downsized the farm some and I will have more time to take care of some personal projects. Figured I better ad that as many may wonder why I want to buy this tractor when I have access to so many on the farm. It's just something I want to do. I dont smoke or drink, so I'm not much fun at parties, but I'm not broke.

Good thinking. Lots of competition for lawn mowing already. And, that's the job timing that would interfere with farming anyway.

The 4520in my link ended up being sold, which is probably a good thing as it would require a much larger trailer and tow vehicle.

So you dont like the kubota pedal? I guess I have not spent any real time on one so perhaps it would get frustrating with muddy size 12s.

Thanks for the reply.

I've got muddy size 13's and run a B7610. Go to various dealers wearing your snow boots and try their tractors out for size. My 13's did not fit a BX25D.

 

[Oldpath05]

I have no idea where the idea that a hydro is not safe on hills comes from.

I said that when I bought a Hoyt-Clagwell Tractor form Mr. Haney, had nothing but problems with it.

 

[ultrarunner]

I love my BX23... really do and it would be the last to go... over the Deere 110

My brother wanted the BX25 for his ranch... he was confused when I questioned it.

I told him it was great and would help him a lot... my concern was with the small tires and his terrain.

Ended up getting a harvest return L3800 and couldn't be happier with the tractor... the larger tires and loader are a real benefit... of course he now use a rear rotary mower.

I guess the weakness for his set up is the backhoe... works well enough... just limited and expensive... in my opinion.

The L3800 reminds me of the old Ford Tractors for the 1950's...

 

[dickfoster]

Having owned 2 gear and 3 hydrostatic tractors, I would disagree with "many that know" and anyone else that says hydrostat is not good for hills. Hydrostatic tractors excel at tackling hilly terrain. And I know what I am talking about, I live near Branson Missouri, and we have two kinds of ground here, up hill and ddown hill If you want any flat ground you have to make it. I have had one gear and two hydrostatic tractors here, and let me tell you, Hydrostat is far easier to operate and far safer. I have no idea where the idea that a hydro is not safe on hills comes from.

Well I had folks with whole lot of experience say otherwise. People who've spent their lives on tractors of all makes and models. People who sell, service and drive them all, including the salesman with 40 years who had previously been pushing me toward HST until I brought up the terrain factor. Bear in mind I was sitting on the HST at the dealership while he had to go and fetch the shuttle from the distributor, where I drove it, then sell it to me for a grand less. I didn't really care either way, I just wanted to get what was right for my needs and terrain.
I'm beginning to think that this whole shuttle/hydro thing is more about personal preference than anything else.

All that said I got the shuttle after driving both and I actually thought the shuttle was easier to drive than the somewhat awkward and uncomfortable rocker pedal. I think a two pedal setup would likely have been better but it isn't offered on on that model. Even on flat ground the rocker actually felt uncomfortable and clumsy for me so I think it might need some work yet. It doesn't matter a whole lot because I won't be doing a lot of back and forth nor do I have great distances to drive at any speed. I'll likely spend most of my time with the seat turned around digging at stumps.

Being into rock crawling, I'm pretty comfortalbe with gear boxes and know how to feather a clutch, when to use 4WD and when and when not to lock up an axle along with how and when to use cutting brakes. I've also developed a pretty good sense of bottom end pucker factor when it comes to flopping and rolling over.

 

[jenkinsph]

Well I had folks with whole lot of experience say otherwise. People who've spent their lives on tractors of all makes and models. People who sell, service and drive them all, including the salesman with 40 years who had previously been pushing me toward HST until I brought up the terrain factor. Bear in mind I was sitting on the HST at the dealership while he had to go and fetch the shuttle from the distributor, where I drove it, then sell it to me for a grand less. I didn't really care either way, I just wanted to get what was right for my needs and terrain.
I'm beginning to think that this whole shuttle/hydro thing is more about personal preference than anything else.

All that said I got the shuttle after driving both and I actually thought the shuttle was easier to drive than the somewhat awkward and uncomfortable rocker pedal. I think a two pedal setup would likely have been better but it isn't offered on on that model. Even on flat ground the rocker actually felt uncomfortable and clumsy for me so I think it might need some work yet. It doesn't matter a whole lot because I won't be doing a lot of back and forth nor do I have great distances to drive at any speed. I'll likely spend most of my time with the seat turned around digging at stumps.

Being into rock crawling, I'm pretty comfortalbe with gear boxes and know how to feather a clutch, when to use 4WD and when and when not to lock up an axle along with how and when to use cutting brakes. I've also developed a pretty good sense of bottom end pucker factor when it comes to flopping and rolling over.

Last week I had to dig for a new waterline on a steep hill. Sitting in the rear seat on the 110tlb to let myself up and down the hill. The driveway was unsafe for vehicles because it was too steep. Most vehicles would slide down the hill. With the creep to reposition it was easier than I expected. Took my time to make sure I did not loose control and slide down. Having the electrically controlled transmission enabled me to use the dipper and bucket to grip the bottom of the ditch while at the same time engaging the transmission, wheels, bucket and stabilizers from the rear seat. Used a chain connected to the 4520 over the top of the hill for safety. This was steep enough the 4520 and box blade could not drive up the hill without the fronts coming up off the ground. Had to back up the hill. Long story short, the hydrostatic transmissions will handle as much as the tractors will and allow you to carefully pick your way up and down a hill.

Sorry about the pictures being rotated on their left side. Just loaded Windows 10 this morning and haven't got the bugs worked out yet.

 

[dickfoster]

It'll be awhile before I attempt working on a slope that steep. The only slope I have that's that bad is the very bottom corner, maybe 10 sq yards. so I just leave it alone.
I hate Win10 and still run XP on my own puter. It works and if it ain't broke, I don't fix it.

 

[s219]

Have to agree, HST is much better for hilly terrain, but do keep in mind it saps some power (10-15%) compared to gear. So if someone was suggesting a gear machine to maximize wheel power, I could see that being a valid point when it comes to hills. Me, I'd just make sure the HST machine's power was adequate enough with the losses, or go with an HST with more HP.

To me, the only place gear is better is for primarily mowing or ground engaging work on flat terrain. No real need for HST there, so why give up 10-15% HP. For loader work, no contest, HST wins for sure.

My first Deere tractor was gear, and my wife's uncle has a Deere 3005 gear which I use a lot. No real complaints, but when doing a lot of loader work, the HST on my current Kubota is so much better. When I have to use the Deere, I feel like a one-man band working all the levers just to maintain a fairly anemic and disjointed pace. With HST, it all goes smoother and faster with no effort.

Over the years here on TBN, I have seen more than one prospective shopper mention they were OK with gear because they know how to drive a manual transmission car or prefer manual transmission cars. I think that's about the most irrelevant connection one could make. The commonality only goes as far as knowing how to use your left foot and feather a clutch. The shifting and coordination of clutch/shifter/throttle between cars and tractors is worlds apart and I see very little connection. The reverse is true too -- I know quite a few people capable of operating gear mowers, tractors, and other equipment that can't drive a manual transmission car/truck at all. My wife can run a gear tractor but the couple times I tried to teach her to drive my manual transmission cars, we gave up.

Bottom line to me, if an operator has run gear (or shuttle) and HST in all different conditions, they will likely know and develop expertise and preferences, and they will certainly recognize and appreciate the advantages of each. If anybody universally says one is better than the other for everything, then they have missed some of the finer points of tractor operation.