Where does it stop?

[Jim Timber]

I don't think I can pop a wheelie with my HST, but now you have me intrigued about your gear tractor skills, and I await your video upload. Bonus points if you can ride the wheelie for at least one tractor length...

I don't beat on my equipment, so if you'd like to provide a donor for the demonstration, I'll gladly pilot it to your satisfaction.

K0ua, the usefulness is a matter of being able to deliver a shock load of pull. No matter how hard you try, you can't jerk a chain without having slack in it first with a HST. Being able to deliver max force in an instant is what being able to pop a wheelie demonstrates - to the fullest extent of your traction.

 

[4570Man]

I don't beat on my equipment, so if you'd like to provide a donor for the demonstration, I'll gladly pilot it to your satisfaction. K0ua, the usefulness is a matter of being able to deliver a shock load of pull. No matter how hard you try, you can't jerk a chain without having slack in it first with a HST. Being able to deliver max force in an instant is what being able to pop a wheelie demonstrates - to the fullest extent of your traction.

Assuming the chain was fully tight when you popped the clutch, then you didn't pull any harder than the HST machine. You probably actually pulls less because a lot of your traction was used up trying to accelerate the tractor. I'll hook my HST tractor to a equal or less weight gear tractor with equal tires any day. How is this a useful feature anyway? I have never used a gear tractor that could pop a wheelie with a loader attached anyway. I witnessed a full sized backhoe do this, but it was rolling backwards first. I doubt it could pop a wheelie from a dead stop. The backhoe has a higher HP to weight ratio than a most tractors anyway. BTW my ZTR can pop a wheelie and it's a HST.

 

[jenkinsph]

Never said gear was as easy as hydro.
Some just like the feel of a gear machine in a tractor.
But apparently if their opinion differs from yours they are wrong.

Vince,
My reply was directed to 4570man not you. I have had straight gear, power reverser, partial power shift , full power shift and hydrostatic. I like all of them but for some things such as backing down a pond bank I do feel the hydro is the better choice. Am I politically correct? No, but I am not two faced about these things either and form my opinions based on my own experiences. I was 50 years old when I got my first hydro, before that all were gear tractors of various types. With a gear tractor moving forward or backward down a steep pond bank is not the problem but stopping with tractor brakes can be. If you want to back a gear tractor down a steep pond bank then knock yourself out.

 

[4570Man]

I'll eat my shoe if you can get the front end to lift on your HST (without using the loader or hooking to a stump). I can apply sharp torque spikes via my gears that you can't dream of with fluid power. When I was back in school getting my AAS in CNC, the machine shop was next door to the fluid power program. The head of that program is a real turd and thinks his program gets more done than we did (when you break it down, we make all his parts and he's nothing without us :laughing: ), but any way... They made a hydro powered rail dragster as a class project. Complete with cage, wing, the whole 9. The students thought they'd be able to do a burnout the whole length of the parking lot because of the calculated torque their pump and motors were capable of producing. End of the semester arrives, they're all outside amped with pride and anticipation for the spectacle. It'd do about 3mph. Driving is driving. Doesn't really matter what the vehicle. Tractor, car, truck. If you can shift one, you can shift the other. Not having to shift might be a plus to you, but I don't like the heat or excess fuel consumption a HST has to offer. To each their own.

You better hope your shoe taste good. With the loader removed and the backhoe attached I can pop a wheelie. Most ZTRs can pop a wheelie un modified. I'd like to see a gear tractor with no weight on the back pop a wheelie. A skid steer can pop a wheelie no problem.

 

[Jim Timber]

Assuming the chain was fully tight when you popped the clutch, then you didn't pull any harder than the HST machine. You probably actually pulls less because a lot of your traction was used up trying to accelerate the tractor.

Your HST has to accelerate the tractor just the same, but it can't produce the same thrust.

Never said I'd pop a wheelie with a loader - not enough torque for that even if there was enough traction.

When you hit the max system pressure, you're going to bleed off power. If that's pulling something, pulling against something, or being pulled by something - you're stuck with what ever pressure limit you've got in the transmission and fluid slippage. With a clutch, you're going to stall the engine, or roast the clutch trying. It's just more efficient at transmitting force. Fluid generates heat, and that heat is your fuel going somewhere other than where you wanted it.

If HST was so great, how come the big ag tractors use power shift wet clutched gear transmissions?

 

[4570Man]

Your HST has to accelerate the tractor just the same, but it can't produce the same thrust. Never said I'd pop a wheelie with a loader - not enough torque for that even if there was enough traction. When you hit the max system pressure, you're going to bleed off power. If that's pulling something, pulling against something, or being pulled by something - you're stuck with what ever pressure limit you've got in the transmission and fluid slippage. With a clutch, you're going to stall the engine, or roast the clutch trying. It's just more efficient at transmitting force. Fluid generates heat, and that heat is your fuel going somewhere other than where you wanted it. If HST was so great, how come the big ag tractors use power shift wet clutched gear transmissions?

I never said HST was more efficient. I have never been able to stall the HST in low range. The HST doesn't have to accelerate the tractor because I'm not trying to launch it forward. The big tractors have a completely different task in mind than the average compact tractor.

 

[ultrarunner]

Your HST has to accelerate the tractor just the same, but it can't produce the same thrust.

Never said I'd pop a wheelie with a loader - not enough torque for that even if there was enough traction.

When you hit the max system pressure, you're going to bleed off power. If that's pulling something, pulling against something, or being pulled by something - you're stuck with what ever pressure limit you've got in the transmission and fluid slippage. With a clutch, you're going to stall the engine, or roast the clutch trying. It's just more efficient at transmitting force. Fluid generates heat, and that heat is your fuel going somewhere other than where you wanted it.

If HST was so great, how come the big ag tractors use power shift wet clutched gear transmissions?

It could be due to scale... all of those I know with big tractors also have big fields...

Those I know with small tractors use them for loader and implement around the homestead more than farming.

I'm glad to have choices and it does seem Hydro is becoming more mainstream every year around here.

As with everything... there are always tradeoffs... just take a look at the RTV market... CV, Auto, Dual Clutch, Hydro... just about every option except for conventional gear...

I own a lot more gear than hydro... my CAT Dozers were basically automatics... my little 350C dozer has a reverser which I really appreciate working the hills.

 

[paulfun9]

I'll take my HST over a gear any day. A HST is far superior to a gear on hills.

Please define superior? Because I prefer the gear for most of my tasks around here and one of the main reasons is that the gear always pulls the hills much better than any HST I have ever driven.

 

[Jim Timber]

You better hope your shoe taste good. With the loader removed and the backhoe attached I can pop a wheelie. Most ZTRs can pop a wheelie un modified. I'd like to see a gear tractor with no weight on the back pop a wheelie. A skid steer can pop a wheelie no problem.

My truck can pop a wheelie with 8,000# on the hitch too... Your point? You seem to have completely missed mine.

 

[Cat_Driver]

I never met a man that ever said " This tractor has too much HP" - " I wish I bought one with less HP"