Where the TC45D is NOT deluxe

[jinman]

My TC45D is busted /w3tcompact/icons/sad.gif and I am HOT/w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif. I am so tired of this great little tractor having poor quality in the design of the controls that I am ready to beef-up my controls where possible and even let my warranty "go" in these areas if that's what I have to do to get good design/w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif. From the simple little issues like the too-cool-running problem on the Class III Boomers to the hydraulic lift control that is way too stiff, the lack of engineering thought is obvious. What were they thinking when they designed a "deluxe" joystick that breaks so easily? Do they think that we will just wash and wax our tractors and only take them out on Sunday for a photo-shoot?/w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif My TC45D is sitting out in a location I can't get a vehicle+trailer to, and it won't budge. It's busted, and here's why.

I was using the tractor normally (hauling some dirt excavated out of my new homesite) when suddenly, as I pressed on the forward HST pedal, the tractor started to go forward and stopped as if I had lifted my foot off the pedal./w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif A quick check of the range control verified that I wasn't in neutral, and a couple more taps of the pedal to no response led me to shut down and do some checking. What I found made me suddenly sick /w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif because I realized my situation was hopeless/helpless./w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif The actuating mechanism going to the transmission (operated by the HST pedals) had broken at a weld right where the bracket attaches to the transmission.(see the illustration and 1a, 1b, and 1c in the photos). Can you believe this big, heavy duty part is held together with these wimpy little tack-welds shown at 1b? I'm not the first one to have this problem. It was reported earlier by someone who had a break in a different location (I'll do a search later). Now I'm no engineer, but I think you will agree with me that if I was designing this part, I'd weld the shaft to both sides of attached plates with full beads /w3tcompact/icons/clever.gif rather than just tack it on one side. In the photo at 2a and 3a you can see there is no weld whatsoever and at 2b and 3b only a two tiny beads. My gosh! You step on pedals that are over a foot from this shaft's rotational axis. The constant reversing torque as you move your foot from the forward to the reverse pedal can easily be 100 ft-lb or more. This shaft is 5/8" dia. and the plates are made from 3/8" steel. In my opinion, with such poor welds, this is a part that is designed to fail./w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif/w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif/w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif

After the part failed, I realized I had two choices: 1. Fix it myself and get it welded properly, or 2. Take the tractor to the dealer for a warranty repair and get the part replaced with another one that is just as bad as the original. Of course, since the tractor won't move and is in a location not accessable by a hauling vehicle, I guess I can get a neighbor to tow me out of the woods with their tractor, help me disconnect my loader and box blade, help me pull it/winch it up onto my trailer, and watch me as I drive away thinking that they are glad they didn't spend $22K on such a fragile piece of #%&*!/w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif If you think I'm really angry at New Holland's design, you are right. It's not a dealer's issue at all, but rests completely on the shoulders of NH engineering and quality control. As you can tell from the pictures, I opted for the first option and removed the part myself. Did I forget to mention that the entire operator's platform has to be removed to get the part off? Also the mounting bracket for the outer shaft bushing (shown as item 22 in the top illustration) is mounted under the FEL post on the tractor, so that also has to be removed to allow the part to be disassembled. What a hassle! I may take a few pictures of my disassembled tractor later, but right now it makes me sick to look at it.

I don't know what to tell other owners except to point out that this is an area you may have problems. Hopefully, your tractor will never experience this problem, but I feel a need to tell it like it is and let everyone be aware whether they are owners or prospective buyers.This is a problem that New Holland needs to address. I am going to take the part to my dealer and ask him to repair it by welding it properly. If he will not do that, I'll ask him to replace it with a new one, and I'll get the new one modified before I install it on my tractor. I'll keep everyone posted on how things turn out. Wish me luck! What a terrible thing to happen to such a great little tractor./w3tcompact/icons/sad.gif/w3tcompact/icons/sad.gif/w3tcompact/icons/sad.gif

 

[spencer200]

This is a problem on some older boomer class 3 tractors the replacement part has been properly welded we have replaced a few ourselves

 

[spencer200]

once you have it back together you should get your dealer to replace it NH is aware of this problem.

 

[MikePA]

Sometimes you have to wonder whether the engineers ever actually use what they design!!!

They (the guy that designed this piece) ought to be forced to come out and fix it.

Does it look like it was a poor weld or just not enough weld?

 

[jinman]

Thanks for the info, Spencer. I surely hope it is corrected in the new part. I am lucky that I have the tools and ability to fix my tractor myself, but this should have been a recall item in my opinion. You surely know what a job it is to remove the operator's platform and much more to be able to replace this part. It's going to take me awhile to be really objective about this issue and I think there are likely other places on the tractor with similar design lapses waiting to "snap-up" the unsuspecting owner. Your info, honesty, and quick response are much appreciated. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[DVerbarg]

Is it possible to have the weld strengthened without removing the part?

Just wondering because I would rather deal with the issue before it becomes a problem but don't want to borrow a truck and trailer to transport my TC40D to the dealer an hour and a half away. Would rather drive the unit (intact without disassembly) to the local metal fab shop just 3 miles away and would probably only cost $25 to do a little weld job.

 

[jinman]

Mike, if you look at the photo of the part you will see a slot cut out on each side of the attaching bracket (with the bolt holes in it). This is to allow the part to flex without breaking the weld when the bolts are tightened. However, on the inside of the bracket, there are no welds, so I think it is just a case of poor "overall" design. I'm no welder, so I can't judge the quiality of the welds, but I can sure say that there isn't enough metal there to take the stress. I'm not sure if your tractor has a similar piece or not. I sure hope not.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Jinman, you did a great job presenting your problem. I'm sorry for the mess. I'm not rubbing any salt here, but ever since I was looking at the HST tractors to purchase (about 2 years to make up my mind) I have really admired the way Kubota does its HST. Very well built and a lot of attention to perhaps the most critical componet of the tractor that separates it from gear driven tractors. The HST will take perhaps some of the most punishing work of all the mechanical componets. Your idea of having it welded up with full beads is EXACTLY right. Its the only way I weld. I see no reason for a warranty to be invalidated as a result of improving on a defect. Again, great job of pointing it out and sorry for your problems, Rat...

 

[jinman]

Rat, thanks for your support and information. Your comments about welds reinforces my opinion and seems so logical it's hard to overlook. I don't know the parts/pieces of Kubotas or any other color, but I'd hope they would not overlook this issue. Funny, my brake pedals (which are rarely used on a HST tractor) are built like a tank. How do you figure that? I tend to agree with MikePA that the person who designed this part should have to replace all that break...but wait...would I want him working on my tractor?/w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif I think not./w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif

 

[MikePA]

<font color=blue>would I want him working on my tractor?</font color=blue>

He'd have to be supervised, of course /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif, but if I were his manager, he'd get a real object lesson about the impact on a customer of a poorly designed part!

 

[DVerbarg]

Jim,

Do you weld? If so, do you think it is possible to strengthen an existing spot weld without having to go through all the work you did to remove the part? I'm not a welder and don't know how much space is needed and don't relish the idea of having to transport to the dealer.

 

[jinman]

Dave, I'm not a welder, but one look at where these pieces are located and I think anyone would say it's too risky. The piece that broke on my tractor is actually in a recess in the side of the transmission housing when it is attached. I could only see it enough to see that the shaft was loose. The top bead was not even visible and the back side of the u-shaped bracket is about 1/4" from the transmission's input shaft when attached. Look up under the right platform of your tractor and see if you would want to weld on that piece (Is your tractor back from the shop yet?). I've learned to never say never, but for this old dimwitted, bad-eyed sailor, I'd never attempt to weld this piece in place.

 

[DVerbarg]

Jim,

Thanks, guess I'll need to talk to the dealer about this the next time I'm down that way.

 

[spencer200]

The new replacement piece we put on a tractor just last week has been welded on both sides. When discussed with NH they said this had been an oversight and they where working hard to correct the problem. We did weld one of these in place while we waited for the replacement part, because it is a big pain in the neck to replace this part. As good old NH has decided just to pay us dealers .3 hours to replace this part. when it takes over 2 hours to do it correctly. OH well! I guess a dealer has to vent once in a while.

 

[BeeBop]

Ahhh, just when I was ready to take the dive and buy the 45D this comes out now I am running scared again /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif. I am sorry to hear about your problems w/your NH and much like you when something I buy w/my hard earned $ I figure it had better keep me satisfied when it costs that much. Good luck w/your NH in the future. I am now off to drive the orange one again. The dealer is going to order me off a straight jacket not a tractor at this rate.

 

[jinman]

.3 hours, wow! When the instructions clearly say to remove the operator's platform and then you have to remove the platform bracket because there is no slip collar on the shaft. Of course, if it is a loader-ready tractor, the loader post is mounted on top of the platform bracket and that has to be removed also, and on, and on, and... I can't believe that New Holland "dumps" on the dealers so much. It must be really frustrating, and let me say that my dealer is great. This problem has nothing to do with him. I'm sure he will support me any way he can to get my tractor fixed.

 

[jinman]

BeeBop, you are wise to check and recheck all aspects of your purchase. Get down on your knees and crawl around under the tractors. Go with the one that looks the best built. That will surely be one of my suggestions in the future. Good luck.

 

[Duckhunter]

I have a TC45D also. How old is yours? 2000 or 2001 Model (New Color).
I have had mine since 9/14/01, delivered from factory on 9/10/01.

 

[jinman]

Ken, I bought my tractor in February 2001, and it had been on the dealer's lot for about three months. It just turned 1 yr on the warranty and I have 226 hours on it. If you look under the right-side platform, you can see the part and check the welds. I'd suggest a good inspection using a flashlight. If you see your part is only tacked like mine, you might just talk to your dealer. After all, didn't you buy two tractors from him? He should be really anxious to help a good customer like you. Good luck! I hope your tractor has the "improved" part.

 

[djradz]

Sorry to here Jim of all the problems. I too have to question some of the engineering. Seems like much of this would just be common sense. Hope it all works out OK. I know I'll be checking mine more closely.