Which 20-25HP TLB for land clearing and landscaping?

[Mfaughn]

Hi all,

First thanks to all those that make this discussion board happen. It has by far been the single most helpful resource I致e found in my tractor research/decision process.

I would like to get a small TLB. Need might be a strong word but who cares. I want one. My wife is behind it so far. I am not prepared to spend more than $20K for the tractor and any implements I might need. I personally do not care about brand name recognition as long as it gets the job done and is fairly reliable. I only looking at new or close to new tractors. If I could find a good used one I will go for it as long as I had confidence in the seller and the condition of the tractor. Those are hard to come by though aren't they? Bang for the buck is the order of the day. If I do sell in 2 or 5 years or whatever I don't want to get murdered on resale value though. I expect a reasonable and not to have to give it away.

I plan to build a rough pole barn on the land to park it in until I get a proper barn built. This will be my first tractor. Probably my last as well.

What will I use it for? I am buying 3.5 acres of land on which to buy a house. The land is in the mountains in Cullowhee, NC. The part I am initially interested in working on has a relatively gentle slope. Not more than 15 degrees and mostly not more than about 10%. There are some steeper parts off of which I'll be pulling some trees but I anticipate the chain being the part that is on the steep slope not the tractor. I plan to more or less leave about half the land alone so really I'll only looking at working about 2 acres tops. My predominate uses (the ones I know of now) will be clearing the land (logs, brush, stumps, rocks), landscaping, gravel road maintenance (about 1000 feet), maybe some grading and site prep for barns, house additions, etc., and maybe digging a small pond. We don't get a lot of big snows but I may need to move some snow once in a blue moon. I am not planning on having a lot of grass to mow. I'm not planning on using the tractor to mow at all.

The logs are not so big but there are plenty of them. They can be made small enough with a Stihl. Looks like most of the rocks are no more than basketball sized with the possibility of a few coming closer to couch cushion. I really have no idea how much of a log or rock any of these tractors can lift or pull. I can read the specs on the tractor but finding the specs on the logs and rocks is harder. Wondering if a thumb on the BH would make a big difference for me??

So, tell me if I'm on the right track and what I'm missing. I am trying keep track of the apples and oranges. If I'm mixed up please let me know.

I started by looking at SCUTs like the Massey GC2310 and the Kubota BX23. Seems like that for about the same money a CUT TLB can be bought. I understand that a heavier tractor is better for digging, pulling, etc..

My closest dealer has Massey Ferguson. They will be about 15 minutes away. $14500 on a GC2310 with 56 hours on it (still under warranty). $17.5K for the new one. This is the only tractor I've actually put my hands on. I have yet to travel to the other dealerships to check them out in person. I looked here before doing research. They might have a CUT that is better for me. Need to go back.

I have been quoted a cash price of $16K + tax for a new Mahindra 2015 with FEL and BH. This seems like a good price to me (though I need to confirm that he was quoting the HST model). That price has 400 off for cash and 1250 off because it has been sitting on the lot for a while he said (so it started at about $17650. This dealer has a store local but that particular store doesn't stock tractors. They have 2 stores that are within 35-40 minutes that do stock them though. This dealer was willing to bring the tractor to me for a test drive. He did not however, know what I was talking about when I said I wanted a tooth bar.

I have also been quoted about $18K + tax for a Kioti CK20 TLB package cash price. 1.5 hours away. Aside from more weight and power, this has some things the Mahindra doesn't...how big a deal are wet disc brakes vs. dry shoe? The Mahindra 2415 (or 2615?) is probably a better comparison to the CK20.

Thinking about Kubota too of course. Though I'm not exactly sure where to look between the BX24 and the B21. Dealer is about 35 minutes away. On the whole it seems like these are typically not as heavy as their otherwise similar peers.

There is a greymarket dealer that has new FarmPro (Jinma?) and lots of used stuff about an hour away too. Didn't have any TLB packages advertised but I'm sure that doesn't mean he can't do one.

Haven't looked into JD or NH much yet, closest dealers are about an hour and an hour and a half away, respectively.

There is a used Shibaura 2243 with scraper, FEL and BH for sale not far away for $10.5K. It has 130 hours on it. Guy says he mostly used it to scrape his driveway. I am very reluctant about this one because the information I have found on Shibaura is that parts are hard to get.

How far is too far away for a first time tractor owner? I'd love to need no support (i.e. everything works) but don't want to have big hassles if that isn't the case.


Sorry for writing a book here. Thanks for any info, insight, and opinions.

-Mike

 

[JiminGa]

Mfaughn, I would go with the dealer that you feel most comfortable with getting support from. The truth of the matter is, there's not much difference in reliability issues between most brands anymore. Mahindra seems to be a fine tractor and the brand is growing rapidly. I would think a nearby dealer with good customer support would make that choice fairly easy to make.

 

[machmeter62]

MIKE:If you plan on doing the major development of your land here is what I recommend: Get a TLB instead of building one with additions. A good used one is in your price range; it's a Kubota L-35, and is a beast of a compact tractor, and should have been painted yellow. It is 35 HP, and will put a smile on your face every time you use it. I have owned mine now for 13 yrs!
The loader isn't removable, but the BH is, and it comes with the 3 point arms for ground engaging implements. The only disadvantage is the fixed ROPS, which would hamper working under trees; but would be great for tree removal if you have access.

If you are going to use the tractor in a construction atmosphere it is capable of all of the following: digging the foundations for your future buildings, the under ground work for your entire septic system and utilities, and any landscaping work. It's capable of working in confined areas with only 60" of width for tractor access too. With the BH removed; road construction with a box blade too.

I would look on this site: tractorhouse.com, and tractors under 40 hp. They sell tractors on consignment nationwide for any and all tractors, which will give you used value prices, with photos on any future purchases.

To purchase a new TLB of the L-35 capability would be the Kubota L-39 or smaller B-26.

There are many other choices in tractors that are very capable too!

 

[machmeter62]

MIKE: At the top of the TBN page, you will find testimonials of the Kubota L-35 under (REVIEWS) that will help you also in tractor decisions? Good Luck!

 

[Z-Michigan]

Welcome to TBN.

First, what do you want/need the backhoe for? I look at your tasks and I think pretty much all could be done with a FEL with a grapple. The backhoe is very expensive if not needed. I would consider a skidsteer loader instead of a TLB, since mowing is not a plan and FEL work is high on the list. I would get a grapple bucket and probably be able to do everything you want with that. It is possible to put a backhoe on the skidsteer if that is ultimately needed. A lightly used smaller skidsteer can be had for well under $20k and you can easily rent specialized implements as you need them.

If you want a TLB, of all you list I would be most focused on the Kioti CK20 setup. Personally I think the best small TLB is the Kubota B26 (replacement of the B21) by a large margin, but I also think it will be well over your $20k ceiling. The B21 is good too, much less powerful, but might be worth considering lightly used. JD and NH don't make any integrated TLB packages that I know of in that size range - the JD110 is JD's only CUT TLB, and is great but pushing $38k fully equipped. I'm not aware of NH making any integrated TLB. You can get their basic CUT/SCUT tractors and then add a FEL and backhoe, but the ultimate result costs nearly as much as an integrated setup but probably isn't as good. Again, price no object I would start and end with the Kubota B26 for a TLB in your size range.

 

[daTeacha]

Read my new post about using an All Mand TLB over the weekend. It's small but very capable.

 

[Soundguy]

I hate to do any bouble bursting.. but here are my opinions.

1, CUT's are not meant to do land clearing.

2, it can be a better idea to 'hire out' the large land clearing duties, and instead buy a tractor more suited to 80% of your duties.

3, A real industrial TLB... like a used ford 3XX, 4xx, or 5XX.. etc.. might be way cheaper, and more suited for your needs... Go ahead and get a SCUT or smaller CUT to go with it.. sell it when you are done for 90-110% of the initial investment price. ( or keep i? )

Soundguy

 

[AndyMA]

I agree with Soundguy. A tractor as small as you're looking at is not meant for land clearing. If you do get a small machine you definately need a backhoe. Pulling stumps and getting even basketball size rocks out of the ground without one is very difficult and extremely hard on the machine. On my land in Conn I could not exist without a backhoe.

Andy

 

[Mfaughn]

OK, this is shaking some of the views I've developed so far reading through the posts here. Let me make some clarifications and see if that makes a difference. The impression I've been getting is that smaller tractors will more or less do what larger ones will but that they just take more time to do it.

I will not be in a huge hurry doing most of his stuff. By land clearing I mean the following....1) moving downed timbers, the overwhelming majority of the largest trees (24" pine) are already down and rotting. 2) by pond I mean 500 sqft. -- koi not cattle watering 3) digging up rocks and piling them up for subsequent use as wall building materials 4) smooting out a rather well built gravel road when necessary 5) maybe preparing sites for a barn and house add-ons.

I'm thinking now that I ought to rent something small and go fiddle with it and see if it does what I think it ought to.

Cheers,
Mike

 

[hemiguy]

Mfaugh,
I've read most of this thread and both agree and disagree with some of what has been said. But lets face it, thats what this place if for, lively conversation about tractors and tractor stuff.

First of all, yes 20-25HP, 2500lb CUTs are not made for land clearing. 20,000lb dozers are made for land clearing, but thats all a dozer can do. CUTs can do a lot more, including most of the other uses you mention. As far as a backhoe, guys that say you don't need one are guys that have never owned one. They are a VERY expensive option but also very useful, and a CUT with one will always have high resale value.

As far as some of the tractors you mention, the MF GC2310 and the Kubota BX24 are sub-compacts and at only maybe 1500 lbs with no attachments just too small for what you want to do. I know people have dug out stumps with those, but how long does it take them, 4 hours per stump? Farmpro, Jinma, etc are basically 30 year old Chinese technology (no hydro on any of those)

The Kubota B21 and L35 on the other hand are small commercial grade TLB's and more suited to what you want to do. For skidding logs or grading a driveway you'll want the backhoe detached and the 3 point hitch out back and you'd want a tractor with some weight behind it (even rotting logs are very heavy). You certainly want 4wd for any of that stuff. Since you're not going to mow a lawn with it, I personally think you should be looking for a tractor in the 25-40 hp range. But with loader, backhoe, boxblade and landscape rake (all very useful) for $20k your only choice is to go used (and you know is hard to find).

Since you have never owned one, I agree 100% with your idea to rent something and see if it does what you expect. Better to spend maybe $300 now than make a $20k mistake.