Which 20-25HP TLB for land clearing and landscaping?

[machmeter62]

OK, this is shaking some of the views I've developed so far reading through the posts here. Let me make some clarifications and see if that makes a difference. The impression I've been getting is that smaller tractors will more or less do what larger ones will but that they just take more time to do it.

I will not be in a huge hurry doing most of his stuff. By land clearing I mean the following....1) moving downed timbers, the overwhelming majority of the largest trees (24" pine) are already down and rotting. 2) by pond I mean 500 sqft. -- koi not cattle watering 3) digging up rocks and piling them up for subsequent use as wall building materials 4) smooting out a rather well built gravel road when necessary 5) maybe preparing sites for a barn and house add-ons.

I'm thinking now that I ought to rent something small and go fiddle with it and see if it does what I think it ought to.

Cheers,
Mike

MIKE: Your original game plan was vague; you stated in your original post that you were going to BUY a house (pre-fab/double-wide or other?) Was that a typo, or do you plan on building a home there now? I would just rent till your future decisions are made, by studying all the options and future costs too. It took us several years before we started our new home in a rural area on our land; and we deleted many of our orginal ideas by spending a lot of time there.

 

[hemiguy]

Lots of interesting perspectives here. I concure with a couple points made earlier on soil conditions on the property. Thanks to the glaciers of the last ice age, here in western NY state we have some areas with 1" of loam over solid bedrock, others pure sand, and then of course there's the cobble rock infested clay that becomes concrete in the summer. In my landscaping side business I encounter the last one most often. I've had cases where my box blade or loader would barely scratch that stuff, but the backhoe loosens it up very nicely. They're definitely useful for more than just digging "little holes". My TLB weighs around 3800lbs total and can get tossed around a little by the tough stuff though. This is where a heavier tractor (regardless of HP) is definitely going to be an advantage if you put a hoe on it.

As far as the cost of a hoe, mine was $5000 new with the tractor. I'll bet I could easily get almost that for it if I sold it tomorrow and even $4500 10 years from now (if I don't abuse it). They really don't depreciate and are always in high demand if one decides later that he doesn't need it anymore, but wants to keep the tractor and loader.

Somebody spent all last summer season clearing a maybe 1/4 acre lot that I pass on my way to work. Lots of brush, rocks, and around 2 dozen or so small to medium sized trees. All I ever saw there was an orange compact TLB that was probably 25ish HP. By late fall there was only green grass. So it certainly can be done... if you have the time.

 

[Soundguy]

OR.. hire the 1-2 jobs out that will need the most expensive part of your equipment ( backhoe ).. and then buy a tractor that more closely fits your needs.

If i don't know what my needs are.. maybee it's not the right time to purchase.. hence the 'hire out' comment earlier.

soundguy

That is why I specified that I was not discussing a commercial operator's approach to land clearing. The original poster is a guy with 3.5 acres that need clearing. He seems to want to do it himself. It is doable in a reasonable amount of time (100 hours of tractor time in my case) with a 22hp TLB. I never met a log I couldn't lift or skid out. I never found a stump I couldn't dig out. Most folks are not trying to clear virgin forests but rather are reclearing land that has been abandoned for a while and is covered with 6-18 inch trees. Those are not a problem for a CK20.

A big commercial TLB will obviously do the job faster but then so would a D9. You can play that game on the spade side or the megamachine side of the equation. A machine that can clear the land faster is unlikely to be as useful in the maintenance of that land. My point was that for a home/landowner with only vague ideas of what he wants to do with the land, a small tractor based TLB will give him the flexibility and capability to clear the land and then maintain it without needing to sell or exchange equipment.

 

[IslandTractor]

OR.. hire the 1-2 jobs out that will need the most expensive part of your equipment ( backhoe ).. and then buy a tractor that more closely fits your needs.

Fair enough. At least get an estimate. A BH on a small tractor adds about $5000-6000 to the package and will retain a great proportion of the initial value. I'd guess that if there was more than a day or two of "hiring out" work it might come down to a toss up economically. I tend to be biased in favor of the BH purchase because of my own unique island situation where it would cost me about $1000/day to get a guy with a big BH or excavator out to do work.

 

[mahlers]

I've seen small CUTs do quite a bit of work - it definitely takes longer, but as homeowners without big time constraints, that doesn't seem to be a big deal. Personally, I find getting stuff done with the tractor to be fun - so taking a little longer to do the job is fine. It's those situations where you hit a big roadblock and just can't continue no matter what you try that are what usually dictate my buying decisions.

 

[Compact1]

Hi all,

First thanks to all those that make this discussion board happen. It has by far been the single most helpful resource I致e found in my tractor research/decision process.

I would like to get a small TLB. Need might be a strong word but who cares. I want one. My wife is behind it so far. I am not prepared to spend more than $20K for the tractor and any implements I might need. I personally do not care about brand name recognition as long as it gets the job done and is fairly reliable. I only looking at new or close to new tractors. If I could find a good used one I will go for it as long as I had confidence in the seller and the condition of the tractor. Those are hard to come by though aren't they? Bang for the buck is the order of the day. If I do sell in 2 or 5 years or whatever I don't want to get murdered on resale value though. I expect a reasonable and not to have to give it away.

I plan to build a rough pole barn on the land to park it in until I get a proper barn built. This will be my first tractor. Probably my last as well.

What will I use it for? I am buying 3.5 acres of land on which to buy a house. The land is in the mountains in Cullowhee, NC. The part I am initially interested in working on has a relatively gentle slope. Not more than 15 degrees and mostly not more than about 10%. There are some steeper parts off of which I'll be pulling some trees but I anticipate the chain being the part that is on the steep slope not the tractor. I plan to more or less leave about half the land alone so really I'll only looking at working about 2 acres tops. My predominate uses (the ones I know of now) will be clearing the land (logs, brush, stumps, rocks), landscaping, gravel road maintenance (about 1000 feet), maybe some grading and site prep for barns, house additions, etc., and maybe digging a small pond. We don't get a lot of big snows but I may need to move some snow once in a blue moon. I am not planning on having a lot of grass to mow. I'm not planning on using the tractor to mow at all.

The logs are not so big but there are plenty of them. They can be made small enough with a Stihl. Looks like most of the rocks are no more than basketball sized with the possibility of a few coming closer to couch cushion. I really have no idea how much of a log or rock any of these tractors can lift or pull. I can read the specs on the tractor but finding the specs on the logs and rocks is harder. Wondering if a thumb on the BH would make a big difference for me??

So, tell me if I'm on the right track and what I'm missing. I am trying keep track of the apples and oranges. If I'm mixed up please let me know.

I started by looking at SCUTs like the Massey GC2310 and the Kubota BX23. Seems like that for about the same money a CUT TLB can be bought. I understand that a heavier tractor is better for digging, pulling, etc..

My closest dealer has Massey Ferguson. They will be about 15 minutes away. $14500 on a GC2310 with 56 hours on it (still under warranty). $17.5K for the new one. This is the only tractor I've actually put my hands on. I have yet to travel to the other dealerships to check them out in person. I looked here before doing research. They might have a CUT that is better for me. Need to go back.

I have been quoted a cash price of $16K + tax for a new Mahindra 2015 with FEL and BH. This seems like a good price to me (though I need to confirm that he was quoting the HST model). That price has 400 off for cash and 1250 off because it has been sitting on the lot for a while he said (so it started at about $17650. This dealer has a store local but that particular store doesn't stock tractors. They have 2 stores that are within 35-40 minutes that do stock them though. This dealer was willing to bring the tractor to me for a test drive. He did not however, know what I was talking about when I said I wanted a tooth bar.

I have also been quoted about $18K + tax for a Kioti CK20 TLB package cash price. 1.5 hours away. Aside from more weight and power, this has some things the Mahindra doesn't...how big a deal are wet disc brakes vs. dry shoe? The Mahindra 2415 (or 2615?) is probably a better comparison to the CK20.

Thinking about Kubota too of course. Though I'm not exactly sure where to look between the BX24 and the B21. Dealer is about 35 minutes away. On the whole it seems like these are typically not as heavy as their otherwise similar peers.

There is a greymarket dealer that has new FarmPro (Jinma?) and lots of used stuff about an hour away too. Didn't have any TLB packages advertised but I'm sure that doesn't mean he can't do one.

Haven't looked into JD or NH much yet, closest dealers are about an hour and an hour and a half away, respectively.

There is a used Shibaura 2243 with scraper, FEL and BH for sale not far away for $10.5K. It has 130 hours on it. Guy says he mostly used it to scrape his driveway. I am very reluctant about this one because the information I have found on Shibaura is that parts are hard to get.

How far is too far away for a first time tractor owner? I'd love to need no support (i.e. everything works) but don't want to have big hassles if that isn't the case.


Sorry for writing a book here. Thanks for any info, insight, and opinions.

-Mike

Mike,

I haven't found too many things more exciting than shopping for a new tractor! My advice is to take your time and listen to ALL the great advice that has been offered.

I also have 3 acres and cleared about 1 acre of trees. I originally purchased a 24hp CUT and had a great time "playing". During the process I learned a couple of things: there are a lot of differences in the way CUT's are designed and function according to HP.

For instance, my 24hp tractor only had two gear ranges (high and low). High gear would get me from A to B as long as I wasn't attached to a heavy implement and was on semi-level ground. Low gear was ssslllooowww! However, the tractors with slightly more HP had a middle gear...a very useful middle gear! Also, the smaller framed tractor didn't have the hydraulic power I expected it to have. The amount of weight the bucket would lift or curl was often dissapointing. Also, the light weight of the tractor negatively affected traction. Two years later I traded for a 33hp tractor - still a modest and light weight tractor but a happy medium for my small acreage. Believe me, when I'm digging in "root bound" clay I still wish I had more HP!

Find a tractor with a frame that will fit your needs even after the heavy work is finished. My new tractor is only 9 HP more than the original but it sits on a larger frame and feels a world different - and still fits my property.

Your new tractor will be a huge investment so be patient and choose wisely. There's nothing wrong with demo-ing a couple of brands and/or sizes before you pull the trigger. Good luck with your decision and have fun shopping!

 

[HighLoader]

It is amazing what you can do with a little tractor once you get the hang of it. I had a New Holland TC24da on 2.5 acres of rocks and had fun digging them out and pushing them around if I could not carry them in the bucket. I am now on more land and moved up to a TC40da. Attatched are some pictures of the work I did with the TC24.

Brian

 

[Soundguy]

For sure little tractors do some big work, over time. when i bought my property, I started with a 21 hp yanmar.. and moved many, many yards of dirt to make my backyard roughly flat, vs a 'drop-off' past my back door. Did it all with a 30" reas scoop and a few dumptruck loads of dirt in the middle of the property leftover from the general contractor.. etc. it's just a time / wear issue. Smaller tractors take more time and trips to dot he same work.. cost less too.. easier to maintain.. cheaper implements.. etc.

soundguy

 

[BTDT]

There is a used Shibaura 2243 with scraper, FEL and BH for sale not far away for $10.5K. It has 130 hours on it. Guy says he mostly used it to scrape his driveway. I am very reluctant about this one because the information I have found on Shibaura is that parts are hard to get.


How does the tractor look? I have an 83 Ford 1300 that was made by shibaura. See if you can talk him down from that price. The implements will probably fit a different tractor if this one ever does mess up, but if it's truly only got 130 hrs, I'd say that's a pretty good deal.

 

[dragula]

I bought a Massey-Ferguson GC2310 TLB earlier this year for $14,200 "out the door" and I have been VERY pleased with it.

I have several acres too and I recently cleared off about a 1/4 acre with it. It did take a little longer than a larger tractor would have but I was having so much fun that it really didn't matter to me how long it took.

I had to use the backhoe to clear a little and dig up trees and then turn around to use the front bucket to pick up the debris and move it elsewhere. Trying to clear with just the front bucket was useless. The machine would just spin the tires at any small obstacle that it hit.

I wanted to stick with a name brand. John Deere was too much money (almost $18k).

I tested out the Kubota BX24 but I really didn't care much for the way that it "felt".

The MF was the perfect machine for me.

I have some pics and more info on my website here if you're interested:

massey