Which 60hp?

[LAWALLSTRACTOR]

Colby,
I just thought I would explain the tractor hydraulic circuitry a little more. A tractor without a loader has a pressure line feeding the 3ph valve and a return line to the reservoir from the 3ph valve. When they add the loader they remove the pressure line from the 3ph and feed the loader valve from it and the loader valve has a return line to the reservoir, and a power beyond port which goes to feed pressure to the 3ph. What the Case dealer is talking about is since you can't use your 3ph while the backhoe is on, they disconnect the power beyond line from the loader valve to the pressure port 3ph valve and feed pressure to the backhoe from it instead. The backhoe the then has its own line to return to the reservoir. On this setup you have 3 line to the back of the tractor 1 pressure line from the power beyond port on the loader valve with a female quick coupler. 2 a return line to the reservoir with a male quick coupler. These 2 will be your pressure and return lines for your backhoe. 3 will be a line from the 3ph valve pressure port with a male quick coupler and a little longer than the other two lines. When you remove the backhoe you will loop this 3rd line arround and plug it in to the pressure line from your loader valve power beyond port, thus reconnecting your 3ph feed. So in essence what you are doing is disconnecting your 3ph valve (as it isn't used when the backhoe is on) and connecting the backhoe valve instead and when you remove the backhoe you are reconnecting the 3ph valve. I hope I have explained it well enough.

 

[Colby Forest]

I hope I have explained it well enough.

You did . Excellent detail.

I knew you don't use the 3-pt when the backhoe is attached and understood why it would be done that way. It just seemed more complicated and harder to do (as I mentioned before, the hyd. lines to the 3-pt on the Kubota looked like they didn't like to bend or move much) than connecting to rear remotes.

ISO stands for ...?

We don't have a Montana dealer anywhere near us. We have a new Kioti dealer, just started this year. It's a line he's added as he sells snowsleds, trailers among other things. Same with the other orange dealer. Just seemed like a good idea to go with a well-established, exclusively tractor dealer, figuring if that's all they do, they will, I hope , know what they're doing.

 

[Harold_J]

...Have also been considering a Kubota M5040 HDC (50 hp engine) w/cab & LA1153 loader, 2 rear remotes, 4WD, R4's. The rear end on the Kubota looks heftier than the NH and Case. Should I be comparing this to the DX60 and the NH 4060/T2420? Or is it comparable to different models in those makes? Would really appreciate thoughts on what models are comparable across Kubota, New Holland and Case in the 50-60 hp range. Apples to apples...

I don't think you are apples to apples to apples here. As you observed, the Kubota M series is heftier. The M series is more of a true utility tractor, comparable to a NH T4000 (formerly TN), the JD 5 series (formerly 5000 series) or the CaseIH Farmall "C", but maybe a little lighter in weight. All these model numbers will be confusing because the manufacturers have been completely changing their numbering systems this past year and there is a mix of old and new still in some inventories.

You should remember that NH and CaseIH/Farmall models are basically all equivalent. I don't know much about Case but I think what you are calling DX has been changed to Farmall 31 thru 60 models. These are compact utilities identical to the NH 4060/T2420 you are considering. There really is no comparing to do as they're identical. The closest JD comparison would be something in the 4000 series, or in Kubota something in the L model lines.

Personally I prefer the true utility tractor to the CUT when you start getting into higher horsepower units; as you noted they are a lot heftier. The Kubota M and some of the L models can have a creeper trans added by the dealer if you find you want/need it for the snow blower. Look at the displacement of the engines when comparing, that will give you another indication of "heftiness".

I think what complicates your decision making is the desire for a backhoe with a cab and wanting to use several 3-pt implements as well. Do you need the hoe to be easy on and off or will you only remove it once or twice a year? If most of my work was going to be with the loader and backhoe I would look for a true TLB. The loader/backhoe can add a lot of stress when added to a CUT or full size utility. If you can swing it financially you might be better off with one smaller new unit and one larger used so that you can have the best setup for the backhoe and leave it on most of the time. And the new unit could be a backup for the used if something is out of service, or vice versa. If I were only going to buy one brand new machine I'd go with the full size utility in any of the major brands that has the best backhoe mounting.

Keep looking, researching and asking questions here; don't make a hasty decision. I wouldn't be scared off by the Kubota dealer's lack of knowledge since Kubota has a solid reputation.

 

[Colby Forest]

Thanks Harold. I had a hunch on those comparisons, thanks for confirming it.

Think the rear snowblower will get more use than the bh. Would still like the bh to be as easy as possible to put on/remove. The way I look at it, the easier it is, the less likely there's going to be anything breaking or leaking.

============

More questions:

Is it standard procedure to connect a bh to the 3-pt hydraulics? It can be connected to quick attach rear remotes, right?

What is deadheading?
What does ISO stand for?

Have been thinking maybe a smaller utility instead of a larger CUT, but also have to consider our 9 1/2-year old 1-ton diesel pick-up can only tow 10,000 pounds total. The attachments for a true utility will weigh more too, won't they? (The trailer we have can handle the weight, no problem. Width between the wheels is 81".) We'll have to trailer the tractor to at least two other places.

 

[BarryinMN]

The bh connections I'm familiar with are on used machines so not worth changing. Connecting to already installed remotes might be cheaper don't really know on the machines your considering.

Dead heading is simply cutting off the oil hyd pump circulation path by in my case detaching the bh and not reattaching the dozer hoses together. The 40 hp engine stalls.

ISO = International Standards Organization. Old tractors had proprietary connectors & would not interchange. The old Deere tools I acquired plow, bush hog, etc. I changed to the standard ISO - Pioneer is a brand name.

Trailering is a constraint. Fender interference was my maintenance problem. Smushing & crunching the fenders when loading and unloading would cause the inner splash guard to rub against the inner tire sidewall and eventually blowout a tire. Several attachments are wide enough to sit on the fenders.

The friends & relatives I help are within 5 mi or so I just drive the tractor. The tractor weighs 10K lbs itself. I had the wheels set 84" wide due to stability on hills so it would not fit on the bobcat trailer anyway.

Time to start test driving machines to get a feel for how tippy they can be especially when toting something. Smaller machines are worse than larger.

 

[Colby Forest]

Thanks again Barry. Little by little, I think I know a little .

I may have missed it- What kind of ag tractor do you have?

If all goes according to plan, will be visiting a couple dealers this week and hope to do some test driving. Got the quote from Case dealer, lower than NH, but tractor is downstate so can't see it, can't test drive it.

 

[BarryinMN]

I have a couple of ag tractors. A JD A 38 pto and a modern Zetor.

Go beyond the price of the tractor and include all costs: fuel, regular maintenance, repair parts ex: clutch, hyd cylinders, cab glass, parts availability ~ downtime, Dealer support (I called 3-4 local new tractor buyers from the dealer list.)

Add depreciation cost if you tend to get bored with stuff and climb on the upgrade treadmill. This is more than a book keeping entry here - think in terms of opportunity value. Is $20K extra special paint parked in the shed worth more than $20K in GE stock that has more than doubled to over $40K the last several months?

Keep in mind the tractor is just a tractor. Attachments get the work done. The dealer and I included forks, snow bucket, grapple/rock bucket, the 7' dirt bucket came with the loader. Have not needed additional loader stuff. 3pt and drawbar is another story.

Paper spec wise my search narrowed to a JD then local dealer had a low hour trade in that I drove. Took it thru the ditch slopes, back up to implements, etc. My "perfect" tractor was way to narrow, tippy and lightweight!!

There is a lot of options out there. The old A was here so I took about 2 yrs to get it's addition.

Pix of $200 8' snow bucket and $500 blower.

 

[Colby Forest]

Sweet grapple bucket! Requires more hydraulic connections than the standard loader connectons?

Zetor is new to me. Where are they made?

Actually have been looking at tractors for a couple years, got serious about it this year. Needs to happen soon (with any luck).

 

[BarryinMN]

The grapple was sourced locally and has worked well for the last 5 years.

Zetor is big in Europe not so big here and Canada. Local dealer is a small boutique compared to the Deere dealer with 5 locations. Makes for first name basis. I also get internet discounted parts delivered Fedex overnight to the farm.

One of the first jobs the new tractor did was lift a 40' hi cube shipping container to put blocking under it.

Keep asking Q's and remember to have fun.

 

[Colby Forest]

Colby,
I just thought I would explain the tractor hydraulic circuitry a little more.

Got a chance to study a backhoe hook-up on a Case 45. Think I actually know what you're talking about now.

Still looking, comparing, considering...
Getting there, s..l..o..w..l..y