Which - Basically I am Colorblind

Fitz_VA · Sep 27, 2003

A couple of others have commented on the HST as well. I have recently worked with a gentleman using a JD4710 with a HST and it was pretty nice. I am pulling up pdf files of designs on the HST's now from the UVa library so I can see how they work in comparison to regular trannies. I am under the impression that they are a fluid based drive system, maybe an an analogy can be drawn to a car tranny? How bulletproof are these things? I know they add like 1K to the cost. The ones I was looking at are the shuttle shift versions, along side the HST's. I was a bit nervous about the word hydro, tranny, and tractor in the same sentence. Also, it would seem that there is more power loss with a HST system as well.

Jim

hockeyhead · Sep 27, 2003

blue, green, or orange, they are all capable machines, I agree don't buy less than 30hp, but no backhoe you buy in the compact class is going to pull 12" stumps much less 36" stumps, with out alot of manuel work, compacts BH's do not have the weight nor hydrulic force to cut ,break or pull imbeded 2" tree roots unless they are exposed by digging, Cut them , drag them and have somebody grind them out. I have done some stump pulling with my TC-30 but I must dig anything over 8" diameter to get a chain around it. Now after those stumps are gone my Tc-30 with 7308 fel,tiller, and box blade, will make some nice pasture ground, I have alot of friends with deere, kubota and , new holland and they are all equal depending on hp. branson I know nothing about, but my guess is it isn't some wonder compact, and is about the same as the big three, go luck with your choice and your stumps. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Kelvin · Sep 28, 2003

Hydrostat Reliability - Bulletproof?

A few years ago before I bought my first tractor I rented a John Deere 955 hydrostat with FEL. Most all of the local rental companies rented tractors with hydrostat transmissions. When I enquired about "why" that was so, the response that I got was that the hydrostat transmission...

(1) required less maintenance (they never had to replace the clutch like they did on the gear drives),
(2) they were easier to operate (and train people to operate), and
(3) they were safer.

I strongly feel that a hydrostat transmission is much safer on hills since you essentially can change gears without using the clutch.

NOTE 1: A tractor's mechanical brakes are on the rear wheels only and are typicaly not that good; with 4x4 engaged the tractor's speed is adequately controlled by the traction on both axles. When you depress the clutch pedal, you remove this traction and are left relying on the mechanical brakes.

NOTE 2: A "Shuttle Shift" type transmission also allows shifting without clutching, but I've heard of at least one case (reported on this board) of a shuttle shift transmission hanging up in neutral when shifting between forward and reverse.

Which COLOR (more hydrostat issues...)?

Assuming that you are NOT buying a used tractor from an individual, my vote is more along the lines of whichever dealer treats you best and you feel will support you the best down the road. However, with the hydrostat transmission you need to take a look at each manufacturer's hydrostat pedal location. The Kubota and JD hydrostat's pedals (at least the one's that I've operated) are operated with the right foot. The Kubota typically has a single foot lever that pivots in the middle; press the forward half of the pedal to go forward and press the rear half to go back. I like this design best, but there are some on this board that dis-like it a lot. On the other hand, I did not like the JD hydrostat pedals at all; here's why: The JD had two pedals located where the tractor's brake pedals are typically located; one pedal for forward and one for reverse (the brake pedals were relocated to the left side of the tractor). Since "Left & Right" pedals didn't naturally correspond with "forward & reverse" to me I found myself having to keep looking at the symbol on the pedal to remind myself which one to press. Additionally, when I had to make a sudden un-expected stop, I found myself using my RIGHT foot to press the pedals on the right side. Of course, on the JD these were now the GO pedals and not the STOP pedals. I'm sure that over time I would have adjusted to the JD's pedals.

Good luck,
Kelvin

Bob_Skurka · Sep 28, 2003

I've got BLUE and ORANGE and like both. As for digging stumps out of the ground, you might want to skip the backhoe. I know that saying that is heretic talk on these boards, but I paid about $7000 for the backhoe on my Kubota and I have NOT gotten that much use out of it. I would have been better off buying a slightly larger tractor and RENTING a backhoe the the few times I needed it, and I would probably still have a few thousand dollars left in my pocket.

As for transmissions. . . I have hills, a 60' drop in elevation in about 120 linear feet. And a couple of steep spots. And lots of rolls. And you don't want to have to shift on a hill. I have hydrostatic transmissions and would not go back to a gear tractor for landscape type work. If you plan to plow some fields, you might want to consider a manual transmission. And a lot of people are really good with manual transmission tractors, and that is what I learned on, but having bought some with HST, I would not go back.

As for brands, I like my Kubota, it is a great machine, but I love my NH because I believe it is designed a little bit better, a little easier to get to things under the hood, and a little more comfortable. But bear in mind, my NH is 2 years newer than my Kubota so I am not making an true apple-to-apple comparision. Both tractors were the best buy I could find for what I needed when I bought them and I passed on the NH tractors a few years ago when I got the Kubota because at that time, in my area, the Kubota was a better overall deal. Your local dealers, and your personal preferences will help you make your decision.

dieselsmoke1 · Sep 28, 2003

( Also, it would seem that there is more power loss with a HST system as well. )

Your analysis is correct. One study I am familiar with was done by the engineering dept. at NCSU. Their finding at the time was that drawbar horsepower was reduced by approx. 12% as compared to an otherwise identical gear drive unit. Generally speaking, this makes an HST often not the best choice for agricultural tractors, which often pull a fixed load at a fixed speed for long distances.

While this loss is certainly significant, it really doesn't affect the typical operation of a utility tractor that much, as most are not used primarily for tillage. The decreased efficiency is easily overcome by reducing forward speed in extreme load situations, such as pushing an FEL into a pile of dirt. Generally speaking, the HST gives the operator the ability to power the tires just to the point of slippage, (assuming engine power is adequate, ground speed not too fast, etc.) and not beyond. The other benefits have already been discussed.

If you're interested, I'll be glad to send a link to the test site.

Kyle_in_Tex · Sep 29, 2003

I never have thought about my JD HST pedals that way, On the flip side, Can you simultaneously use the left or right brakes and give it forward pedal on Kubota? I like being able to use the brakes to help steer out of a tight spot. It has helped me dozens of times...Kyle

NIXON · Sep 29, 2003

( I never have thought about my JD HST pedals that way, On the flip side, Can you simultaneously use the left or right brakes and give it forward pedal on Kubota? I like being able to use the brakes to help steer out of a tight spot. It has helped me dozens of times...Kyle )
YEP ! Use the cruise control lever to control your speed and the brakes can be used as required . John

Kyle_in_Tex · Sep 30, 2003

What if your are stopped just a few inches from a tree and you know you can only make the turn with one wheel braking? Can you still use your cruise control?

Bob_Skurka · Sep 30, 2003

I would not even consider using my cruise contol in that types of situation.

However, at least on my NH, I can brake one wheel (either left or right) with my toe and accelerate with my heel and use the brake to help turn.

NIXON · Sep 30, 2003

Kyle ,Darn ggod question ! To be honest I don't know for sure /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I'd just as soon back away and make the turn required if at all possible . John