Which GPS to buy?

TresCrows · Jan 11, 2004

"But, here's the question -- $67 Billion for the troops is a heck of a lot of money. If those boys and girls still need all that stuff, what the heck are we spending it on? I remember a lot of breakdowns for the $18 Billion, everything from garbage systems to water plants to new Zip codes, but I don't remember ever seeing how the $67 Billion was going to be spent. Are our troops actually getting any of it? If it isn't enough, we ought to know"

I cannot answer your question. I feel certain that the military knows what they are doing and are overall competent and protective of our troops. Nonetheless, I am told by several people and several articals like the one I mentioned that for example, a unit may have only one GPS, a heavy cumbersome unit called a plugger which the troops hate. Also, I have been told again for example that a patrol unit may only have one or two portable radios and that again they are heavy and cumbersome. The fellers I am told like the FRS/GRS units so each pair of troopers can stay in contact when they are on a loose patrol. Imagine a platoon broken into pairs patrolling an area, several fellows may be a few hundred feet apart, maybe still within eye contact distance but to far to shout or communicate with voice easily, hence the GRS/FRS radios.
Look, I ain't no expert on this stuff, back in college I went to MC OCS, graduated and then decided upon grad from college to marry my gf and go to Grad school instead. Looking back maybe I could have done them all but heck, we were not at war at that time, the post Vietnam era was not military friendly and young geologist with MS degrees made lot's of money--yes we did--I assure you. In any case, I am not sending this stuff to feel good or because I am guilty about not being there but because I know several young men who are there serving their country and I feel I should do what I might can to make their time there safer or more comfortable within my limited capability to do so. J

Kelvin · Jan 11, 2004

( I use a Garmin III Pilot and it has served me well. Very comforting in the cloud to use it as a "cockpit resource" to back up and double check other nav systems, especially since it is more accurate and provides a better presentation in many cases. )

Is there more than one version of the Garmin GPS III (Pilot vs ???)?

Since I started this thread I have heard that the Garmin III is a good tool to have in the cockpit, and that it will display a compass that would come in handy in the event of instrument failure. However, as pointed out in an earlier thread, the Garmin III may not be as user friendly as the Garmin V in non-aviation applications ( at this time I will point out again that I have no experience with any of the hand-held GPS units).

So it looks like there is not a single reasonably priced GPS that is highly recommended for both aviation and ground applications. It looks like I may end up going with the Garmin GPS V (or higher) for my initial GPS purchase, and then buy a Garmin GPS III (or other unit with aviation features) if I follow my itch to start flying the small aircraft again (I must admit that tractor seat time is sometimes as enjoyable as aircraft seat time, with no worries about being shot down...).

If I placed the Garmin GPS V on the dash of the airplane while flying over the middle of the ocean at 39,000 feet it might pick up enough of a GPS signal to give an ocassional Lat-Long position, which would provide some emergency backup. Once on the ground in some foreign land then the GPS V could then be used to navigate around the streets.

Which brings up another question:

Has anyone purchased a GPS system configured for use in the USA and then used it overseas? Beyond the obvious (it'll need to have the street maps and/or other country information downloaded), would there be any problem trying to navigate to a motel in France or Italy?

Thanks,
Kelvin

jyoutz · Jan 11, 2004

Your help is very commendable. One side note. About 9 years ago, civilian federal gov. agencies had opportunities to obtain and use pluggers for our agency use. Many of us involved with land management agencies loved them due to their compact size, ease of use and accuracy (wow they were accurate to about 23'). How technology moves on! Now compared to my Garmin GPS-V, the plugger is heavy and and not very sophiticated. But one thing, the pluggers are field durable to the extreme. I think you could drive an Abrams tanks over a plugger and they wouldn't be damaged at all. The Garmins and Trimbles are durable, but nothing like the plugger.

TresCrows · Jan 12, 2004

"Is there more than one version of the Garmin GPS III (Pilot vs ???)?"

Yes, there is the Street Pilot and the Pilot. The Pilot has a Jeppson database. The unit works great attached to the yoke, I will probably mount it flush on the panel of my RV7A. There are several units out there that have bigger screens or more features etc but the Garmin III Pilot is much cheaper at "only" about 450 dollars. The new Garmin 196 has some impressive features and a larger scree. Other than the PDA based systems, I know of no aviation units that also inlude marine and topo/street info.
Using a Ipaq type handheld computer with either a card GPS or slaved off a handheld, you can install a variety of software from several vendors that has Jeppson database, another for weather, another for topo/streets etc. The programs/software are not cheap and the handheld computers do not yet have the rugged/weather proof capabilities of most dedicated GPS units. We are on the verge of a new age in navigation with these hand computer/PDA systems. By the way, aircraft approach certified units (panel mounts) are able to pick up on ground supplied GPS signals for greatly increased accuracy, important when lining up for a runway in the cloud.
Don't worry about getting shot down--I plan to shoot back /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif. The very idea of patrolling our skies with loaded and armed military aircraft scares me. Wait till one crashes in a school yard or "accidnetly" pulls the trigger on a jet with an "irate/troublesome passenger" who is diluded into thinking a commuter jet can fly to Australia and they just happen to be in the vicinity of the capitol or important landmark when he throws his fit and it is code Chartruse or Mauve, very very dangerous--playing with fire /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif. J

Kelvin · Jan 12, 2004

Re: Which GPS to buy? [Mowing w/GPS!]

I first saw this photo in the Feb-Apr 2003 time frame when I was over-seas and not able to read the posts on this site very often. So it is possible that this photo has already been posted on the site; if so, I apologize, but it does connect the GPS threads back to tractors!

Kelvin

Gary_in_Indiana · Jan 13, 2004

Re: Which GPS to buy? [Mowing w/GPS!]

Kelvin,

This is certainly the first time I've ever seen the photo. I'm really glad you posted it here. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Kelvin · Jan 13, 2004

( The very idea of patrolling our skies with loaded and armed military aircraft scares me. Wait till one crashes in a school yard or "accidnetly" pulls the trigger on a jet with an "irate/troublesome passenger" who is diluded into thinking a commuter jet can fly to Australia )

Armed military aircraft may be scary, but that is the only way to have a chance to prevent another 9/11 event, and even with the armed military aircraft it is still possible to have another 9/11 type event. There is a difference between the aircraft scenario and a ground law enforcement situation in that the fighter pilot's life is not in danger and he can take a little extra time to analyze the situation before firing the fatal shot.

I doubt very seriously that any military pilot is very anxious to pull the trigger and shoot down another airplane with innocent passengers; in fact, I would fear that a pilot's hesitation to carry out the mission (shoot-down) may cause more problems than over-anxiousness.

I feel that as long as the stray airplane follows orders to turn away from the prohibited airspace there would be no (or very little) threat of a shoot-down. An irate passenger would not cause an airline pilot to ignore "turn or be shot down" orders; an airplane piloted by a terrorist would most likely ignore the orders. I have participated in a few of these "patrol the skies" missions (including the evening of 9/11 itself) and have seen a few small aircraft venture into the no-fly zone (I'm actually amazed at how ofter it happens). They quickly get the message from the fighters and turn in a different direction suffering no more damage than perhaps embarassment and dirty underwear (and possible future legal action... that I don't know much about...).

Hopefully this deviation from the original topic...
(1) isn't getting too political
(2) won't bring out any extreme emotions from readers

Kelvin

TresCrows · Jan 13, 2004

"I'm actually amazed at how ofter it happens"

It happens because the disemination of information is inadequate to pilots. The TRA areas pop up sometimes with no warning so there is no way to know while planning a flight or while in flight. The FSS often don't have the info either and the various services from AOPA etc as good as they are cannot see into the future for pop up TRA. Also, most small aircraft fly VFR and are on personal flights where until all this mess began absolute accuracy in navigation was not needed and they do not have provisions for it anyway and they pose no danger to national security either. Thankfully we now have a variety of excellent GPS products that along with better information to the pilot community will help the situation. Feel free to discuss this further in private as I do not agree with you at all, if you wish, or not.

Back to GPS. Yesterday, I saw a demonstration of a PDA unit with a culture and street map program installed. It had a GPS card inserted in one of the ports. Touching the screen, say on a intersection, brought up a list of information such as buisnesses, phone numbers etc. Not to lick old wounds but the new Nissan Titan is avaialble with a navigation system as are several automobiles. The one on the Titan is pretty neat but the problem with buying something built in is that this technology is evolving so rapidly that anything today is obsolete next year. The portable units are cheaper and a new unit can be purchased with the latest features with no impact upon the vehicle (car, tractor, airplane, whatever). How do you upgrade a system installed in a vehicle that you may own for ten years or so? Will they be like power windows on Ford products, good only for the first year and you are stuck the remainder of your ownership with a window that won't go back up and a GPS that is always lost? Who knows? J

PBMAX · Jan 13, 2004

What many do now is build there own. Not cheap but very cool.
6"X10" touch screen and driver set $300-$500
(Use xp onscreen keyboard.)(no rightclick) Could mount track ball to console...
Micro Pc with Hardrive and DVD/CDR and 512ram to 1gig ram $600-$1000.
onboard sound and video cards makes them quite small...
Use wirles RF keyboard and mouse $40(for detailed info input)
Mount the diplay to dash
Mount the micro pc under the seat or in console.
Plays DVD's and can be used as a nevigator with Delorme and gps ant.

Advatages are can be relocted to new vehicle with some time and patience and can be ugraded as the wallet alows... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
could aslo use older or cheaper laptop ($800 range) with video out to the touch screen and add track ball and have a laptop when you need it....

Have thought seriously about both in my 96 2door explorer.
U could also use it a music jukbox...add xm radio for the pc and realy be rockin.
Although delorme can be hoggish you would need atleast a 1gig pc to do multiple task. such as running street atlas and a dvd playing...

PBMAX · Jan 13, 2004

Tech tv was showing a (new garmin I think) that had a built in FMRs and GMRs radio and would even let you send your location to a pal.

Looked like a large walkie with nice display...did not catch the model...sounded cool but the price i thinl was 499 or 599....