Which model to buy?

[jimmyj]

Hi all

I have been posting on the orange tractor pages but a few of the guys there have told me I should be looking at green too. I am hoping to buy a tractor for between $15k and $20k for the following:
-moving manure (have cows, goats, sheep)
-moving 600 - 700 lb round bales (only 2 a week from the barn to the feeder, no stacking required as I only buy 4 at a time from a local guy)
-general loader work around the 10 acres we have
-clearing the driveway, grading too (400 ft long)
-some towing of trailers
-possibly a 3ph snowblower or auger
-some of my terrain is slightly hilly, not much or very steep though

I am now quite educated about the orange guys but the green is new to me. Which JD models do you recommend for these uses and budget? I really would like 4wd as my current (small + old) 2wd tractor is a real pain in the muddy areas, particularly on a slope. I would guess from what I've learned so far that 30 to 45 hp would be the right range but the JD model numbers are confusing to me.

 

[tessiers]

I will get chastized because it is too small but I bought a john deere 790 4x4 3 years ago for my small farm.

I run a small family farm, beef, hogs, poultry, and a little woods work.

I feed dry round bales in the 6 to 7 hundred pound range, stack them 2 high in the barn.

I cut and skid 20 to 30 cords of firewood per year plus a few saw logs every now and again. I also have a 3pt wood splitter.

Maintain 1500' dirt road, gravel in summer and snow in winter (5' rear snow blower)

Mow about 5 acres of pasture +/-

3 pt mounted trailer hitch

I also have a backhoe that always seams to be needed for something.

This has turned out to be a great tractor in a small package. I paid about $16,000.00 with loader and loaded tires brand new.

 

[wolc123]

If you could scrape up another 3-4k and go with a 4120 you will have something at the 43 hp level that outspec's anything in the orange or blue stables. This tractor comes standard with a quick-attach bucket on the 400X or 400CX loader and adding this option to a similar (but underspec'd) orange or blue model will usually push thier costs equal or higher. I have had a 4120 (3) years, used it hard, and not had a single problem with it. If you really have to stay in your budget, you might look at the 790 or 990 or thier 3000 series replacements in the new model year. Consider that these models have imported engines rather than the JD powertech and have far less hydraulic power. That might not be important to you but it was for me because I did not want to be the first in my family to bring "overseas power" to our farm. As far as I know, the JD 4000 series is the only option out there from any manufacturer for American power in your horsepower range.

 

[Millalien]

I'm not sure about the 30-45 HP part. A 2000 series could do what you're asking in the sub-30 HP category, maybe slower and not always. I did all that with a 16 Hp Deere 670 (now discontinued.) As you'll soon discover, the devil is in the details --

What kind of loader work?
How much PTO HP does your PTO implement need?
Backhoe?
What other implements?
What's your real budget?
How much time will you / doe you have to spend in the saddle?
How much will it hurt to upgrade if you made the wrong choice?
How much will it hurt to downgrade if you made the wrong choice?
How much will it hurt to do nothing if you made the wrong choice?

I went through this drill and was settled on a 2X20 but reconsidered time and effort and got a 3320 instead. The 2X20 would have done just about everything the 3320 can but a little slower. What it can't do is drive PTO attachments rated beyond its PTO HP.

If the 20K number is the ceiling without implements but with a loader, then you could get into a 3320, which is 32-33 HP. Or you could get a 2X20 and use the extra dough for implements. Anything bigger than that for that money is ruled out on the Deere side.

There are approximately ten bazzillion words of advice on this very topic in this very forum. Have fun spending hours and hours reading opinions on the differences between 2320s, 2520s, 3205s, 3320s, 3520s etc. etc. etc. I read just about every one and what tipped more one way over the other was standing in the dealer lot facing a side-by-side and visioning all the likely things I'd be doing with the machines. I went bigger, but not over budget, and kind of think the best single euphemism is to buy the biggest you can afford unless there some physical limitation that makes small better.

As far as orange v. green, I think it depends on the HP. I preferred the 3320 over the Kubota competitors in that class. If I'd gone for less HP, I very likely would have gone Kubota and saved a few bucks. But I didn't!!

 

[gulfofmexico]

I would look at a 5103 with 4 wheel drive with a loader.

 

[exiled]

If I was buying a new tractor it would be a 5303. For what you get for the price I just dont see you going wrong w/ a 5203 or a 5303. You can get either tractor under $17,500. Adding the loader depending wich one you can look at about $22,000. They got the power and the right size so you dont feel like your sitting on a giant bigwheel or a Tim the toolman lawn mower. When you go pushing, pulling, and lifting w/ the machine it starts to take a toll. If it does'nt have any meat on its bones its going to ware out pretty fast.

 

[jimmyj]

This is good stuff. Keep 'em coming.

Regarding Millalien's questions:
What kind of loader work? 50% will be moving hay bales from truck to barn then from barn to pasture - about 400 feet, but up and down hill. 30% will be cleaning up wasted hay, bedding and manure piles. Of course the rest will be odds and ends such as some landscaping, snow removal, some firewood work. There are always a million light things to do with a loader.
How much PTO HP does your PTO implement need?This is a good question that I need to research more. Likely the only rear PTO work I'll ever do will be a snowblower.
Backhoe?Would be a nice thing to play with but I can't justify buying one. I have 4 people on my road with different types and sizes of hoes that I can borrow free any time
What other implements?Beside the snowblower I want to use the 3ph to lift and move hay bales, pallets of firewood and possibly some other stuff. Very unlikely I'd ever have to move anything over 1200lbs if even that much. I don't think anything else except maybe a rented 12" post hole auger at some point.
What's your real budget?20k is tops.
How much time will you / doe you have to spend in the saddle?Less than 100hrs a year.
How much will it hurt to upgrade if you made the wrong choice?Not too much but I'm big advantages of JD and Kubota is resale if I do decide I've missed the mark.
How much will it hurt to downgrade if you made the wrong choice? Same as above
How much will it hurt to do nothing if you made the wrong choice?I have lived with my wee 2wd tractor for the last 10 years. It's just really slow and too small to lift much. That said, I have been getting by. Mostly I want the speed and luxury of a nice tractor now that I'm at the point I can finally afford it.

Hey tessiers, the 790 is reputed to be a pretty good unit. But Tractor Data says the 3ph lift is under 900lbs. Do you think that is right?

Like I said, keep 'em coming. I want to have some research done when I do see the dealer.

 

[tessiers]

Hey tessiers, the 790 is reputed to be a pretty good unit. But Tractor Data says the 3ph lift is under 900lbs. Do you think that is right?

I really don't really know, I haven't had any problem lifting anything I put on back. It will lift a 16' pine log 24" in dia to skid out. Also runs a 9" post hole digger in clay soil with no problems.

I had the paperwork all filled out on a 990 instead of the 790 but I started looking at replacing all of my attachments (bush hog, finish mower, box blade, snow blower, rock rake, ect.) because they were to narrow for the 990. I have no regrets about the decision 3 years later so it must have been a good choice.

 

[jimmyj]

Thx again tessiers. Your needs seem to be almost identical to mine.

 

[Millalien]

Based on your reply, I think you'll find that the 2000 series tops out capacity-wise on what you're describing that you need to do. You might consider the Kubota B7800, which has a smaller frame that the Deere 3000s but sports a 30 HP engine and I think the loader lift capacity is someplace between the Deere 2000s and 3000s. Other than that, I'd consider at 3320 gear drive. Plenty of power for what you're describing and if you can live without HST then the $900 you save buys an implement.

The Deere 790, which is now called something else, gets you more PTO, less 3 PT left capacity then the other 2000 series, and can only take a 300 loader (less capacity then the 200CX).

Your uses and capacity requirements kind of put you in the middle of the Deere classes. I'd take a good look at the 3000 series, or if you don't want to spend that much, a Kubota B7800. (I don't understand why you'd consider a 5000 series.)

 

[exiled]

(I don't understand why you'd consider a 5000 series.)

Thats the easiest thing to understand. Working 10 acres. Moving hay and trailers around. Wants to spend under $20,000. Makes the most sence to me. 5203 and above will leave him enough room to expland his operation. 5103 he can do everything he mentioned and have the loader right under $20,000.

 

[Millalien]

I don't know much about the 5000s, but it looks like MFWD is an option that would throw the package w/ FEL over $20k. The OP didn't mention whether he needed 4WD or not.

 

[exiled]

I don't know much about the 5000s, but it looks like MFWD is an option that would throw the package w/ FEL over $20k. The OP didn't mention whether he needed 4WD or not.

Yea, MFWD w/FEL will throw it over $20k.

 

[Phineas7]

I have a 790 4wd. The main reason I chose it over the 2000 series was PTO HP for running a chipper and bush hog. The reason I didn't go 3000 or bigger was I want to use it on hilly terrain in the woods, so I wanted something low and small enough to weave thru the trees. The 790 looks so small on the tractor lot, but seems so big when I'm trying to get it thru the woods (must be an opticle illusion).
I do believe the 3pt hitch is rated in the 800's. It has not problem easily lifting my chipper which is supposed to weight a little over 800. It's stable on the side of hills (MUCH better with loaded tires) and will climb a fairly steep bank depending on traction. The loader should handle bails fine, especially without the weight of the bucket. I have the JD toothbar on mine (which is not lite), it struggles, but it will pick up a heaping bucket of wet Georgia clay. The problem the loader does have is breaking the load out of the embankment, but for loose dirt and general loader work it's fine.
I like the mechanical simplicity of it, but HST would be nice for loader work. It would probably be a good trade if it weren't for the difference in PTO HP for the same engine HP. Although I've not had issues stalling it. It has more HP than traction. When I dig the loader in and it's gone as far as it can, the tires just keep turning and keep pushing.
If I were using it in an open, more farm-like scenario (less hills & trees), I may have stepped up a size, but hard to say. You could probably get a 790 (now 3005) with 4wd, FEL, bail spear, box blade, and bush hog for less that 20K. Not sure what a snow blower cost.

 

[jimmyj]

Met with a dealer and he recommends the 3000 series if I go new. The 790 seems to be a wee bit light in the loader for my wants. I do want 4wd though.

Best idea so far from the dealer seems to be:
JD 3320
gear drive
4wd
turf tires
300CX loader
ballast box
upgreaded heavier duty 52" bucket with cutting edge
block heater
taxes etc all in $23,600.

It's a bit more than I wanted to spend but the specs really show everything I'd like.
32.5 engine HP
3 range tranny (12 speed)
3ph lift 2200 lbs 24 in behind arms
two clutches for fwd and reverse
standard rear PTO
The loader can lift up to 1400 + pounds at pivot (I know the about the issues of the lift physics as you move out etc)

That's a bit higher than I wanted but the Kubota quote I got was almost the same. The best Kubota quote I got for new was:
L3400
Industrial or turf tires
Loader about the same specs (forgot the #)
4wd HST, 3 range
loaded tires w/inner tubes
block heater
taxes etc all in $21,000

Seems like I may have to spend a bit more than I wanted to but I really want to do it right. Either that or go used.

 

[arrow]

if you don't have a large hankering for HST, I would opt for the 990 (different number now?). Find list price. Dealer markup is 25%. Its a simple gear tractor that you should be able to buy for under 20 with FEL and MFWD with negotiating. It will do everything you stated and last you 30 years or more.

 

[arrow]

Just went on to their site. $20689 msrp. (990 w/fel and 4wd.) 25% of that is $5172. So invoice should be $15516. They may be happy with 2 grand over. Give it a shot.

 

[Millalien]

That 3320 price seems high. I got quoted $19,2 for a gear-drive 3320 with 300cx loader, all-in, including tire-fill, work-light and bucket hooks. Ended up with a 3320 HST for $400 more because there wasn't gear drive within 500 miles of here and I didn't want to wait for a 6 week delivery time.

Make the dealers work for it. I told mine I'd lived without the tractor for decades and I could probably squeek by a few more without it.

 

[jimmyj]

Arrow and Millalien, are those Canadian prices you are talking about? I'm in the great white north and we get hosed on just about everything tractor-wise.

Either way, seems I've got to be a better man at this buying thing.

 

[arrow]

No. Add another $40 to those prices Canadian. Don't know what freight charges are per tractor to go to Canada. Even if they were a thousand dollars you should still be buying the 990 for under 20 grand. You may want to looked used. A nice 870 970 or 1070 mfwd with fel can be had from 11-15 depending on hours.