Which oil to use????

HEC · Feb 3, 2006

I have a toro wheel horse garden tractor with a hydro. transmission and the manual states to use a 10w 30 oil for the transmission.I was planning on useing a synthetic oil if that isn't a problem.You would think they would want a hydraulic fluid instead of reg. motor oil but it doesn't state that.Any suggestions????

wolfe1 · Feb 3, 2006

Use what the book says and you can't go wrong- to me its kind of like arguing Ford vs. Chevy- niether side product will ever be the best

FOURTEEN · Feb 3, 2006

( Any suggestions???? ) 

 I recommend Amsoil MCF .

Not only does it provide superior motor oil qualities to what Wheel Horse calls for, but also the benefit that with this motorcycle motor oil "there is no need for separate transmission lubricants. It is absolutely shear stable and will not thin out from mechanical activity. AMSOIL MCF performs like a gear lube without the negative effects of extreme pressure additives. In the FZG gear test, AMSOIL MCF achieved a perfect score with a “zero” wear rating."

So you not only follow the manufacturer's manual, but far exceed it!

FOURTEEN · Feb 3, 2006

( Use what the book says and you can't go wrong)

 My caveat is that manufacturers make their money by selling their products, not by making them last indefinitely! Ideally, for a manufacturer, a product will last long enough to exceed its warranty and make the owner think that it is a 'good' enough product that he will buy a replacement. So, while the manual may specify 'adequate' care, it may not be the 'best' care. By giving your tools the 'best' care they may indeed last much longer than expected!

HEC · Feb 4, 2006

Thanks, it looks like a great product , all I have to do now is find some and I will use it my motorcyle also.
Thanks again,
Herb

FOURTEEN · Feb 4, 2006

( all I have to do now is find some )

 Although it is available many places, I have received the best prices and service from Greg .

Amsoil is more expensive, but still represents such a tiny amount compared to the cost of the equipment that it is really insignificant compared to the possible benefits derived.

JasonH · Feb 5, 2006

My old Dixon has a 12hp Kawasaki single that's 18 years old, and I have no idea what the hours on it are. I started using Mobil 1 in it this past summer because they carry the stuff that is supposed to be good for 15,000 miles. I figure this means I can change it once a year and be good to go. So far so good. People think it's crazy to put expensive oil in an engine that would only cost 6-700$ to replace. I can buy a lot of expensive oil for that much money.

FOURTEEN · Feb 5, 2006

( I started using Mobil 1 in it this past summer because they carry the stuff that is supposed to be good for 15,000 miles. I figure this means I can change it once a year and be good to go. )

 Maybe, but I still like changing oil and filters on the "severe service" schedule. Even though I use all Amsoil products, my cars are serviced every 3000 miles, and my other engines every 50 hours.

I know that peanut butter is cheaper, but I enjoy steak!! When nice cars cost $35,000 and gas is $2.50 per gallon, a few extra quarts of oil per year don't break my budget!

PS: I have a 1976 Power King tractor with a 14hp Kohler that runs on Amsoil as sweetly as it did 30 years ago!

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kenmac · Feb 7, 2006

Mobil 1 E.P. 15000 mile oil is not rated for small 4 stroke engines. Mobil has a 4 stroke oil. I use amsoil in all my stuff now. They have diesel oil, 4 stroke oil oil for gasoline engines , atv's ,etc, they have an oil for all engine classes.

JasonH · Feb 8, 2006

I'm not really sure what you're talking about when you say it's not rated for small 4 stroke engines. All the certifications of the bottle match the ones in the owners manual.

In this current house I'm living in, you could almost get away with a push mower. So last year I only put about 10-15 hours on the mower. Prior to that I was putting close to 100 hours/season on it.

A lot of these specialized formulas for engine oils are marketing scams. I'm not saying there aren't differences, I'm just saying the differences aren't as profound as many people want to believe.

Keep in mind that when the engine on my mower was built, straight 30 weight was the standard.

The most important thing of all to remember is that this mower is 18 years old. I imagine the engine has about 1000 hour on it. That's a lot for a lawn mower engine. The engine has outlived two starter motors and a transaxle. I'm getting a Kubota GR2100 in a few days because I'll be moving back to an area with some more land very shortly. From this point on, the mower will be a back up and that's about it. If my choice of oil causes a catastrophic engine failure it's not a big deal. It will simply give me an excuse to try and figure out how to install a small v-twin.

FOURTEEN · Feb 8, 2006

( The most important thing of all to remember is that this mower is 18 years old. I imagine the engine has about 1000 hour on it. That's a lot for a lawn mower engine. The engine has outlived two starter motors and a transaxle.)

 18 years is not all that long, and 1000 hours of service isn't much! My Power King tractor has only had a head gasket, a carburetor needle, and a few batteries replaced in 30 years, and landscapers in the warm states may run their mowers for nearly 2000 hours per year for several years!

Actually I wouldn't recommend a Dixon if it ate two starter motors and a transaxle in less than 1000 hours!!

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FOURTEEN · Feb 8, 2006

( A lot of these specialized formulas for engine oils are marketing scams. I'm not saying there aren't differences, I'm just saying the differences aren't as profound as many people want to believe. )

 Some Useful Info!

JasonH · Feb 9, 2006

The old Dixon z-drive transaxles were designed to eventually wear out over time. They worked on friction. I could explain in more detail but I really don't feel like it at the moment.

The starter was not a Dixon issue. That was a Kawasaki issue.

Only the smallest and cheapest Dixon mowers still use the z-drive transaxle these days. I'd still recommend them.

JasonH · Feb 9, 2006

So Amsoil sponsored a study where their product came out on top. Should that surprise me? Should I regard that as anything more than glorified advertising?

FOURTEEN · Feb 9, 2006

( So Amsoil sponsored a study where their product came out on top. Should that surprise me?

 No, not if you are a cynic. 

Should I regard that as anything more than glorified advertising?

 Yes, if the study was done by an independent testing laboratory, and there are actual test procedures and numbers to back up the claims and conclusions. )

kenmac · Feb 9, 2006

If amsoil were lying about their product. Why don't mobil (or whom ever) come out with their test that shows they are superior & prove amsoil to be a liar ?Believe what you want & use the oil that you want, it's your life.He asked what oil to use & we gave our opinion. If you believe all oil is the same you have a right to your opinion even if you are wrong. If he or you choose to use inferior brands ,that's your business.If you want to use the best, use amsoil................. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

kenmac · Feb 9, 2006

( I'm not really sure what you're talking about when you say it's not rated for small 4 stroke engines.

Are you using 4 stroke mobil engine oil or regular automotive grade mobil oil ? Like I said mobil offers a 4 stroke engine oil for small 4 stroke engines. Mobil is a good oil amsoil is better in my opinion, but what ever brand you choose to use , match the oil to the application.

JasonH · Feb 12, 2006

Some people call me a cynic. I prefer critical thinker. It's not that I think Amsoil is bad stuff. And it could very well be the best. I just want to see unbiased testing.

I ride motorcycles. The best motorcycle publication is "Motorcycle Consumer News." Each issue is only about 40 pages long. It's printed in black and white on what is basically heavy newspaper. Perhaps some of you have seen it. It's also one of the most expensive motorcycle magazines on the market. Anyone care to guess why? They accept no advertising money from anyone. Years ago the magazine was taking ad money. Honda gave them a Goldwing to test. They gave the Goldwing a horrible review. Honda got upset and pulled all of their advertising money from that magazine. Long story short, the magazine doesn't have ads because they feel they cannot publish honest reviews if they have to worry about a company getting offended and removing their ad revenue.

How does this correspond with Amsoil? In the Amsoil study, they used an independant lab to analyze the oil. If the lab gives them results they do not like, they'll probaly find a lab that will. That's not likely to happen. What is likely is they can change a number here and there to get the results they want.

With this all said, I have seen unbiased publications state that Amsoil is very good stuff. But they also point out that you are ultimately splitting hairs to find the differences.

JasonH · Feb 12, 2006

I use automotive grade oil. From years of motorcycling I do believe synthetic is far superior to mineral based. Synthetic oils are modified to better withstand high temps. High temps are quite common especially in air cooled engines. The only rating numbers that matter are the ones that indicate oil viscosity. The ratings are indicated as things like SD, SH, etc. They can be found somewhere on the bottle. Your owners manual will list them as well. As long as a few of those ratings on the bottle match those in the owner's manual, the oil is perfectly acceptable for use.

The reality is that most engines in just about anything are made better than they've ever been. Before my parents bought the Dixon, they had an old Snapper with an 8hp Briggs engine. That engine didn't have pressure lube. It didn't have a cast iron cylinder sleeve. The engine ultimately died on it. My parents didn't repower it because it was already too small for its job. Most of the newer engines all have much tighter tolerances, pressure lube, cylinder liners, improved carbs, better ignitions, etc. Oil is certainly a key element of longevity. Good design and build quality are as well. Whether you use Amsoil, Mobil, or whatever they sell for .99$ at the local gas station, you're probably going to find that your engine will hold up just fine.