Which Track loader to choose?

[slowzuki]

The tread design is partly to not tear up the ground when turning. A balance between traction and turning.

 

[JDSkidsteer]

At first I found it odd that you sorta downed the ASV tracks, but then I realized why. You are a Deere Dealer.

In your opinion, what makes the ASV tracks "definitely a higher maintenance item"?


Dave in NY, you are doing right by researching and asking opinions on an open forum. Please get as much info about the machines as you can before talking to a salesman/dealer. Every one of them will say they have the best and throw you the sales BS. Make sure you are an informed buyer and go prepared.

I am Deere Dealer also, but just check out resale value on Cats with ASV undercarraige. Resale on them are in the toilet and many dealers now pushing Cat rubber tire with Loegering undercarraige. If you like joy stick ck out Takeuchi TL140 or 150. No one downing ASV undercarraige. Just stating the facts. Used in ideal conditions they are great.

 

[tlbuser]

I am Deere Dealer also, but just check out resale value on Cats with ASV undercarraige. Resale on them are in the toilet and many dealers now pushing Cat rubber tire with Loegering undercarraige. If you like joy stick ck out Takeuchi TL140 or 150. No one downing ASV undercarraige. Just stating the facts. Used in ideal conditions they are great.

UH huh, and who makes the track undercarriage for the Deere's? Oh wait, they don't have one. Apples to apples, some people aren't thrilled with the Cat engines or controls, the undercarriage may not be the whole resale issue.

 

[tlbuser]

I am looking for input on track loaders. I currently have an RC-60 ASV, and will be upgrading. We are comparing the ASV SR-70, the John Deere CT332, and the Cat 287B. If anyone has any input, I would appreciate it.

Dave in Buffalo NY

What's wrong with the performance you got from the rc-60 (turf or std.?) What's the reason for brand shopping, just checking your options or .....?What about the RC-85 or 100? Since you're upgrading anyway

 

[JDSkidsteer]

UH huh, and who makes the track undercarriage for the Deere's? Oh wait, they don't have one. Apples to apples, some people aren't thrilled with the Cat engines or controls, the undercarriage may not be the whole resale issue.

Deere engineers desighned with burco and purchased tooling for Burco to manufacture for them to Deeres specs. Deere does not own the patton on them though. Kamatsu is currently running the same undercarraige. To date I have sold around 50 units and zero undercarraige failures.

 

[Digdeep]

I highly doubt that Deere engineers did anything from an engineering standpoint other than work with Berco to figure out how to fit the undercarriage to JDs skid steer chassis. I still talk frequently with my old Bobcat field sales rep, and he said that Komatsu introduced the "JD/Berco" undercarriage at BAUMA (trade show in Europe) over 3 years ago and has been selling them in Europe since, prior to releasing them in the States last year.

Did JD give Komatsu engineering assistance too? Let's face it, JD and Komatsu use the same Italian (no offense meant) undercarriage, with Italian drive motors, Italian planetary drives, Italian rollers, and a Bridgestone track. Pretty innovative. I'm nottrying to start a flame war here, but there really isn't much difference from Bobcats, CASE's/NH's, Komatsu, JD undercarriages. They all use Bridgestone tracks, Passisni or Berco rollers (yes, even Bobcat), and pretty much the same rail design. I still think it boils down to the features and benefits of what's in the chassis when it comes to rigid mounted machines. Other than that, they're pretty much all the same.

 

[JDSkidsteer]

Deere had been working on CTL unit since 2001. It was put on the back burner when they decided to move plant from Lauden T. to Debuqe IA. There is only Bridgestone tracks that are similar to Bobcat. They started using bottom rollers Deere was using after Deere started using. Idlers and open frame design, planetary drive system, and weight distribution to the undercarraige are the main focal points to the system Deere is using. The final analogy from my customers standpoint is we have sold over 50 units and no undercarriage failure other than normal track wear. I am not trying to start a war. I am just stating facts. Not personal opinions. All brands have good and bad pionts. Cats just happens to be ASV undercarraige. Just look at the auction results when it comes to resale. Even die hard loyal Cat customers do not denie this. Turfguy wanted somer input, I don't think he meant to start an argument. I will step out of this thread and let others give their information.

 

[Digdeep]

JDskidsteer- I'm not arguing with you, and I like your enthusiastic posts. It sounds as if you're a successful salesman, and I wish you continued success. I agree with you that the CAT MTLs have some problems, but I think they are due to putting a skid chassis onto a undercarriage. If you put an ASV RC60 next to a 247 with similar hours and applications, the undercarriage wear will be significantly different. I sold against both CAT and ASV, and I saw it then and I see it now. Definitely not apples to apples.

I also know that we were puting Berco rollers on T200s long before JD ever came out with their tracked machines. I bet you would get two answers about how much JD contributed to the production of the undercarriage if you talked to a Berco engineer and a JD engineer. Both the Italian Berco and Passini are huge suppliers of mini-ex rollers, and have been for years. Berco is one of CATs main competitors in the after market for dozer and crawler rollers and components.

My primary point is that if you disassembled both the Komatsu and JD CTLs, you would find that the components are identical. As far as the weight and balance goes; when I stand next to either machine, both undercarriages appear to bolted to the chassis right where the axles and chain cases would be. How would this significantly alter the weight and balance of either machine? Wouldn't the weight and balance of the chassis remain the same (30/70? or 60/40?) whether it was on tracks or wheels? Did JD make a dedicated chassis for their tracked units? I don't think they moved a single major component (engines and pumps are still in the same places) in their chassis in order to fit tracks to their skid chassis. Please tell me if they did. You probably know more than I do since you work for a dealer. I'm just curious about what the factory told you. As I said, please don't stop posting. I like your posts, but I'll tell you what I tell my math students, "You don't get full credit for the answer until you can show me how you got the answer".

 

[tlbuser]

Turfguy wanted somer input, I don't think he meant to start an argument. I will step out of this thread and let others give their information.

I don't think any of us perceive it as an argument as long as both sides are discussing relative information. I probably did it poorly, but it is noteworthy that not all of CAT's SS performance problems are track related. Heck, just for fun look at machinerytrader.com 4721 SS listings and 1039 of them are CAT. Does that make them a bad machine, not really.

I've got a tad over 2230 hrs. on my non-turf RC-60 and still using the original set of tracks. My belief is that excessive counter-rotating will kill tracks just the same as harsh conditions.

 

[Tags]

The way a track machine is operated makes all the difference in the world. I've heard of guys replacing tracks on a variety of different branded MTL's within 500hrs, some guys just need to go like **** and some don't. I personally never counter-rotate my machine or spin it around in place, I'm Mister Three Point Turn...