Which Zero Turn Mower?

[byax65]

This is an older post, but I'm about to make the jump to a ZTR, and have looked at Exmark, Hustler, Scag, Dixie Chopper, Cub Cadet, John Deere, Grasshopper, New Holland, and Kubota.

For value, to me, the Bad Boy mowers seem to stand out in the pack. The heaviest built, full suspension on the model I'm looking at, choice of 32hp Vanguard air-cooled or the 28hp Kawasaki Liquid cooled. The comparable Exmark came in 700-800 dollars more than the Bad Boy. And I was really impressed with the way everything is so accessible on the Bad Boy. Nobody else comes close in that regard.

Kubota and John Deere and Hustler make some nice machines, but everytime I built one it came out to 11g-12g. Scag also built nice, but again, higher on price.

My neighbor has a Dixie Chopper and swears by it, as it's given him 10 years of work with very little problem.

Ultimately, I was sold on the Bad Boy when the local dealer's mechanic took me to the back area and showed me the difference between the BadBoy's and the Grasshoppers and Cub Cadet's they also sold.

The only thing left to check out is the ride and maybe a cutting demonstration before I take the final leap.

 

[CJ4]

byax65,

I still haven't bought a ZTM yet...I made it thru last season just using my tractor and brush hog. I'm going to give Bad Boy, Hustler, and Scags a good look, but like you, for the money I like the Bad Boy so far. I like the swing out tanks and easy to get to maintenance issues.

 

[cowsrus]

CJ4, I,m also looking at buying a ztm. I,ve also done a lot of looking and searching. It's easy if you don't worry about cost, but if you try to get something reliable and heavy built, you are looking at $5g at least, which is really more than I wanted to spend on a lawn mower. I,m going nuts, $3000 for a cub cadet with a 22hp Kawasaki & a 50in cut is what I was looking at, but I don't know how long the thing would last. I mow an acre to acre and a half and we are pretty rough on mowers.. I found a Swisher that was built pretty heavy, but it had a B/S engine. I always thought a Kohler was a good engine, but reading other posts they aren't any better than the bs. So while i'm sitting here looking , its raining every day and the grass is getting taller.

 

[CJ4]

cowsrus,

I hear ya. I just don't like Briggs engines....not sure if the commercial ones are ok or not but i don't have much faith in them, especially if i'm investing 5k or more. From what i'm hearing the Kawasaki engines sound like the best. Sounds like the small hp ones are not as good. I really think alot depends on how much area your needing to mow and the conditions of your land. Yours isn't too much area but is it rough and tough ground? I have several acres to keep up, which some will be shared with my brush-hog but my ground is pretty rough and rocky and root/stumpy right now.

Bottom line, I think a 5k mower will last for awhile if you take care of it but I think you could spend 8-9k and get one that should last 3 times as long. One issue I got into was, about 1978 I bought a 18hp Snapper 52" deck with a Onan engine. This thing was more of a small tractor that was originally made by Massey Ferguson but Snapper had bought that line out and put their name on it. It is hydrostat trans, with hydraulic deck lift and even a 3pt lift hookup on the rear. That thing still starts and runs....issue is the mower was discontinued and for the last many years you can't buy deck parts for it. It's a perfectly good mower still but the deck is shaft driven to a gear box then a cogged belt runs the pulley on each blade.....these pulleys have rubber coggs and they wear.

Anyway, my point is..........if I give 10k for a mower to last 25+ years....will the parts be discontinued in 10yrs or the company go bankrupt and a couple parts make the thing trash?????? It's all a gamble I guess......we all shoot craps everyday whether we think so or not!!!! haha

 

[DJFaninTN]

i like the bad boy mowers but be careful with the ones from TSC. they are the lighter version that bad boy makes. I know the guys at TSC and they told me that they get several complaints on them just not holding up as well. I found a bad boy dealer and he does ALL of TSC's warranty work. He just shakes his head at what gets brought in.

if you are going to spend that kind of money, go ahead and spend a few more bucks and go to a dealer who carries all the bad boy mowers and see the difference.

you might also look at the Dixie Chopper. nice ZTR and priced about the same as the bad boys.

 

[cowsrus]

I know what you mean by the machine outlasting the deck. I had a cub cadet 149 with a Kohler motor and it also hyd lift for the deck and also a hyd lift in back for implements. It had a cast iron motor and a cast iron rear end. They don't make em like that no more no matter what you pay. That thing was 12 yrs old when I got it and I used it another 12 yrs or so. It got to where it wasn't mowing even and the carburator leaked gas and I finally retired it. I still have it and have been thinking about restoring it. But in the meantime I need something to mow with. I think even with the high end mowers, you are going to have trouble with something or other. My brother in law bought a Exmark and he loves it but he's had 1 or 2 spindles go out. It was still in warranty though. My other brother in law mows with a Grasshopper and he had an axle break after the warranty ran out. Read some of these repair forums and you hear of problems with every engine made. So, what to do? Like I said above, i,m going nuts. I spend all day on the internet doing mower research. I have to decide on something pretty quick. The high end commercial mowers used to last 25 yrs, but I'm not so sure about todays crop.I'll probably pick a medium duty in the $3000. price range. I'm sure no matter what I do, I'll second guess myself afterwards.

 

[byax65]

byax65,

I still haven't bought a ZTM yet...I made it thru last season just using my tractor and brush hog. I'm going to give Bad Boy, Hustler, and Scags a good look, but like you, for the money I like the Bad Boy so far. I like the swing out tanks and easy to get to maintenance issues.

Going down on Monday to look at that Bad Boy and maybe place the order. But I may swing by the local Dixie Chopper dealer and take a look first.

 

[OKnewguy]

cj4 and Cowsrus, I live in Edmond and have been look for a used ztr. There have been a number of Grasshoppers show up in Craigslist over the last couple of months. I have emailed replies, asking them to call. I rarely get replies (sometimes by email) and never get a phone # or a call back. But then they will be relisted. So it seems like they have not sold. There was one in Jones and one with a sweepster thing. Anyway I do not know if these are scams or what. But I have basically come to the conclusion that if they do not list a phone number they are some kind of scam. I guess all of this is pointless for you two, because it sounds like you are both looking for new.
Anyway good luck, Dave

 

[CurtC]

I've had a Gravely ZTR 60" for about 8 years now. I got it when they first came out and were pricing very low to break into the market, for about 6500. It is a well built machine, I've not done anything but maintenance in 8 years, very happy with it.

 

[CJ4]

OKnewguy.....i'm in Edmond too....nice to meet you.

For everyone's info I checked out Bad Boy at TSC and the BB dealer and the ZT sold at TSC is exactly the same ZT sold @ the dealer. The issue is, it's their residential entry level machine but sold at both places and for the same price, ie: $4,995. It's very well built for a residential machine but is just a bit smaller, and doesn't have the EZ ride shocks or the better seat like the Lightning Z does. It also has the cheaper engine (Briggs 26 hp). It boils down to whether you want to spend 3,000 more for a machine that should last forever or not. I'm recommending the ZT for my mother who is 72 but she has pretty smooth mowing of 3 acres and she takes care of her stuff likes it's her kitchen sink!!!! So in her use, it should last a long while and serve the purpose good.

I just can't see buying at a store where they don't even know where to get it serviced. I have a bitter taste with the responses that I received and think it's crazy to buy at the chain store for the same price and still have to take it to the dealer when it breaks down. I'm sure it'd be at the end of the line if you didn't buy it from him....and I couldn't blame him sooo i prob will go see if they'll deal on 2 machines......

 

[Dargo]

I'll probably pick a medium duty in the $3000. price range. I'm sure no matter what I do, I'll second guess myself afterwards.

Believe me, I've second guessed; to the point of trading 2 weeks after I bought a new mower!

I think you are in for a bit of sticker shock though. In trying to help my dad get into a ZTR I found that $3000 only buys you the very low end of the light duty range. It seems that what I would consider a "medium duty" mower is going to be around the $7500 or so mark with the heavy duty commercial units going for about $12k and up. Fortunately for me my first true heavy duty commercial unit unit I bought 10 years ago has had zero failures. Heck, after about 1500 hours it is still on the original deck belt! The deck spindles have zero wear and are perfectly tight and all the wheel bearings and spindles also are showing no wear nor are loose in the least bit. I bought that unit when I had a 3 year mowing contract that would pay for the unit though. So I guess you can say that it took me 3 years to work it off.

Anyway, my experience with the low end ZTR mowers wasn't so great. They taught me how much superior a ZTR was for mowing compared to a lawn tractor, but I had many break downs after the first season. I bought 3 "cheap" (nothing is cheap!) units from different companies and they all let me down rather quickly. I don't know how today's "cheap" ZTR mowers compare, but the pain of having to work on the darn things far out weighed the initial 'savings' of buying a cheap entry line mower. But, according to my father, I am one of the few guys who can tear up an anvil with a rubber mallet.

 

[JESSE1]

I took delivery last week of my John Deere 997 diesel ZTR mower. This is definately a commercial quality machine. 31 hp Yanmar diesel, 72" 7 Iron deck that is 7 gauge steel. I've mowed my yard once and it's cut my mowing time by at least 1/3. You find out quick how much time is wasted turning with a compact tractor compared with the ZTR.

 

[Dargo]

I agree with you Jesse1. That is one heck of a mower!! That is one that I had out at my property to demo and spent over an hour on it mowing. That hour taught me a few things. First, that mower is far tougher than I am. Second, I really need to smooth out my yard. Third, there may be tougher ZTR mowers like that one but I personally haven't been on one. Contrats on your beast of a mower! If I ever find the time to re-do my yard and smooth it out I'll seriously consider adding a 997 to my lineup.

 

[montanaman]

Guys and gals....

Listen carefully to what is being said here about a $5,000 or less zero turn. In that price range, they are a very nice quality residential mower, NOT commercial. I sell these things and also have a lifetime of experience as a mechanic, welder, machinist, and have spent 8 years in the hydraulics industry. If you have a nice little yard and want a zero turn, then $5000 will get you much better than what the box stores have for $3000 but you are really missing out on what a few more thousand dollars will get you!!

The TSC Bad Boy is a well built machine for $5000 but it runs a Kohler Courage engine that is rated as you would expect an engine to be on a machine in that price range. The hydraulic system uses the sunstrand combination pump/wheel motor and they are also built to fit the price range. Step up a few thousand and you will be getting high quality pumps and wheel motors with coolers and a hydraulic tank, 3,000 hour commercial engines, much higher strength frames, and a machine that very well could be worth re-powering some day.

I sell machines with a rated towing capacity of 2,000 lbs that carry a lifetime warranty on a lot of the major structural components like the frame and front wheel casters, have industrial engines with three stage air filters, and will be around for your kids to use.

Like the saying goes, it's going to cost you one way or another so you might as well just pay up front!

Ken

 

[Dargo]

Like the saying goes, it's going to cost you one way or another so you might as well just pay up front!

Ken

Hey, why couldn't you have told me that when I first got into buying a ZTR?! I had to learn the hard way. I could have bought a nice unit for the losses I took on the first 3 pieces of junk I bought thinking I was getting real bargains. I was one of those fools who thought 'I wonder why others are so silly as to spend three times as much for the same thing'. Ha! I ended up spending three times as much and had nothing after the first three junkers. I learned the quality thing the painful and expensive way.

 

[tb8100]

Guys and gals....

Listen carefully to what is being said here about a $5,000 or less zero turn. In that price range, they are a very nice quality residential mower, NOT commercial. I sell these things and also have a lifetime of experience as a mechanic, welder, machinist, and have spent 8 years in the hydraulics industry. If you have a nice little yard and want a zero turn, then $5000 will get you much better than what the box stores have for $3000 but you are really missing out on what a few more thousand dollars will get you!!

In most cases, you're correct. However,

The TSC Bad Boy is a well built machine for $5000 but it runs a Kohler Courage engine that is rated as you would expect an engine to be on a machine in that price range. The hydraulic system uses the sunstrand combination pump/wheel motor and they are also built to fit the price range. Step up a few thousand and you will be getting high quality pumps and wheel motors with coolers and a hydraulic tank, 3,000 hour commercial engines, much higher strength frames, and a machine that very well could be worth re-powering some day.

You have bad information. The Bad Boy model sold at TSC has the Briggs ELS engine, which is a 1200 hour engine. It is the only component on these mowers that is not commercial grade, but it is the best of the homeowner engines for sure. If you want a better engine, get the ZT with the 23hp Vanguard. That's a great engine that puts out alot more torque than the Briggs ELS, and it is commercial grade with a canister filter and the whole shebang.

The hydro system is comprised of dual fan-cooled charged ZT2800s with a reservoir, which IS a commercial duty system and I have yet to hear of a failure. Look on Lawnsite.com, where thousands of LCOs cut day in and day out on machines driven by the ZT2800. Exmark, Hustler, Toro, Scag, and many, many other mower companies use this transaxle without issue.

I sell machines with a rated towing capacity of 2,000 lbs that carry a lifetime warranty on a lot of the major structural components like the frame and front wheel casters, have industrial engines with three stage air filters, and will be around for your kids to use.

You're referring to Dixie Chopper I'm assuming. They aren't built any stronger than a Bad Boy mower. Built well, but not stouter than a Bad Boy.

Like the saying goes, it's going to cost you one way or another so you might as well just pay up front!

Ken

True that. You can't go wrong with a separate pump/wheel motor hydro system and a big block engine, but spending $5K is already spending alot more up front than a mower at **** Depot would run you.

 

[montanaman]

Thanks for the info! You are absolutely right and I am sorry. I usually try harder to get my facts in order but it's spring and I am really busy at work. So they run a Briggs, not a Kohler and I haven't found the actual rated hours, but it is far less than 3,000. The point being that $5000 is a lot of change to peel out of your wallet and to spend less than a few grand more will get you a much better machine. I see the day when the entry level commercial machines will be gone. To stock an entry level machine, you can't beat the box store, and you can't meet the needs of the true commercial consumer or educated residential consumer.

I wasn't naming brands, but since you did, I will say that DC has a lifetime warranty on the frame, steering casters, caster bearings, control levers, and body and offer a 3,000 hour rated engine with top of the line hydraulics for just a few thousand more than the premium box store stuff.

As a dealer with my customers best interest in mind, I try very hard to educate my customers that there is a big difference between value, and price!

If I have to sell on price alone, then I'll give up because the box stores have the low price with no service all figured out!

Ken

 

[tb8100]

Thanks for the info! You are absolutely right and I am sorry. I usually try harder to get my facts in order but it's spring and I am really busy at work. So they run a Briggs, not a Kohler and I haven't found the actual rated hours, but it is far less than 3,000. The point being that $5000 is a lot of change to peel out of your wallet and to spend less than a few grand more will get you a much better machine. I see the day when the entry level commercial machines will be gone. To stock an entry level machine, you can't beat the box store, and you can't meet the needs of the true commercial consumer or educated residential consumer.

I wasn't naming brands, but since you did, I will say that DC has a lifetime warranty on the frame, steering casters, caster bearings, control levers, and body and offer a 3,000 hour rated engine with top of the line hydraulics for just a few thousand more than the premium box store stuff.

As a dealer with my customers best interest in mind, I try very hard to educate my customers that there is a big difference between value, and price!

If I have to sell on price alone, then I'll give up because the box stores have the low price with no service all figured out!

Ken

Let me just say I agree that box stores are a worthless place to buy equipment. Support your local dealer.

That said, a lifetime warranty on the frame and casters is worthless as it is a lifetime LIMITED warranty, limited to a certain number of hours. That, and, how many frame and caster forks fail due to regular use? A tiny percent. I would instead look at specs like the hydro system, engine, frame and caster materials, and most importantly, dealer support. Does your dealer stock a good range of parts? Can they get you in and out fast in the event of a failure? These are things I would look at over gimmicky warranties.

 

[tb8100]

Oh, and just $1000 more ($5995) and you can get the Bad Boy Pup with the 23hp Vanguard and a 48" deck. $1400 more ($6400) and you can land a 30hp Kohler/48" deck model. To go up in deck size, figure about $300 more for each increment- $6695 for the Pup 30/52, $6995 for the Pup 30/60. The Pup is a full separate pump and motor hydro and hands down the best value out there.

 

[montanaman]

Let me just say I agree that box stores are a worthless place to buy equipment. Support your local dealer.

That said, a lifetime warranty on the frame and casters is worthless as it is a lifetime LIMITED warranty, limited to a certain number of hours. That, and, how many frame and caster forks fail due to regular use? A tiny percent.







I would instead look at specs like the hydro system, engine, frame and caster materials, and most importantly, dealer support. Does your dealer stock a good range of parts? Can they get you in and out fast in the event of a failure? These are things I would look at over gimmicky warranties.

There is no hour limit and only in the case of very extreme abuse would a claim be denied. It is a real warranty and you are absolutely right that it is not needed. If it was needed, they couldn't afford to offer it!

You hit the nail on the head about the dealers added value. I have a loaner here at all times in the event that a commercial customer has a machine in need of service. Buy a machine from a box store and chances are you can complete the entire transaction without ever talking to someone who has run one!!

Ken