Why can't Toolcat use the Digger?

[dannyk]

Why can\'t Toolcat use the Digger?

I have been using a Bobcat 753 skidsteer (43 hp, with steel tracks) with a digger attachment. The one I use is the Kasco Rooter, but it is similar in design and purpose to the Bobcat Digger. This is an extremely useful tool for digging holes for planting, removing rocks and small stumps, and digging trenches.

Over the next year or so, I may be interested in switching to a loader that is a bit easier on turf. I especially like the Toolcat, but I notice that the Digger is not approved for use on either the Toolcat or the A300, both loaders with all-wheel steer, in spite of the fact that both these machines have a greater lifting capacity than my 753.

Is the all-wheel steer related to the fact that the Digger is not approved for these units? Do I need to be considering a 40-hp tractor instead of the Toolcat? (I was originally told about the Kasco Rooter by a poster on this board who used one quite successfully with his New Holland TC40D tractor.)

Thanks for any information.

Danny

 

[BrianSouthernMD]

Re: Why can\'t Toolcat use the Digger?

dannyk,
I don't know why Bobcat hasn't yet formally approved any Bobcat Diggers for either the A300 or the Toolcat 5600. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Thoughts anyone? But their pdf Digger brochure indicates the previously offered A220 all-wheel-steer loader is approved! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif I'd investigate further before use, but don't assume Digger use is not safe or prudent on the A300 or Toolcat AWS models just because the formal Bobcat approval hasn't yet been made and/or announced for that attachment. And don't assume the Web site compatibility info is entirely complete, either.

I know Bobcat has been hesitant to approve attachments with dig depths of 4 feet or more for the Toolcat. For example, Bobcat has approved the LT213 Bobcat Trencher (4-8 inch trenches) with a 3-ft. dig depth for the 5600, but not the 4-ft. dig depth LT313 and LT405 models (these 6-12 inch trenchers are approved for the A300).

But with the recent introduction of the C-series Toolcat with revised lift arm and curl mechanisms and much more breakout force, many more attachments are being formally approved. Expanded Toolcat uses are being endorsed. In fact, in an earlier thread BobcatBoy had indicated he's heard that almost all items (except some "backhoes" and concrete breakers and ?) approved for S130 and S150 SSLs are now fine for the 5600C and 5600TC.

BTW, I use a small Markham Welding stump and grubbing bucket to dig with my Toolcat B-series (but I don't go real deep)! Keep those questions and comments coming as you ponder your next machine! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[BrianSouthernMD]

Re: Why can\'t Toolcat use the Digger?

dannyk,
I looked up your Kasco Rooter. It's very similar to my Markham Welding Stump and Grubbing Bucket, which I successfully use to dig with my Toolcat! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Both the Kasco and Markham Welding designs are different than that of the deeper-dig-depth Bobcat Diggers.

 

[dannyk]

Re: Why can\'t Toolcat use the Digger?

Thanks, Brian. I appreciate your thoughts. It's helpful to know that you can use a similar bucket on your Toolcat.

I am curious to know, when you are digging, do you run out of traction or horsepower first? For example, with my tractor, I always run out of traction (wheels slip) before the engine rpms start to decline. But with my tracked skidsteer, engine rpms dip (loss of power) before I lose traction. I would guess the Toolcat would be more like my tractor.

Thanks again,
Danny

 

[BrianSouthernMD]

Re: Why can\'t Toolcat use the Digger?

danny,
Yea, the Toolcat is more like a tractor than a tracked machine in that respect. The Toolcat is incredibly versatile with its compatible attachments and it can even handle some digging with the grubbing buckets like we own or certain mini-hoes, but there are limits in this area.

If you need to dig much deeper or dig for most of your machine usage, rent or buy a mini-excavator (in addition to your Toolcat for everything else!) /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[dannyk]

Re: Why can\'t Toolcat use the Digger?

Here is a response that I received from Bobcat (via their website contact page) regarding use of the digger on the Toolcat:

"Because of the suspension system on the Toolcat, it was determined that it would not meet some customers digging performance. Therefore, it was not approved. On the A300 I believe it was just an oversight. Please let us know if you have any additional questions."

This confirms my belief that Bobcat should offer a Toolcat of the same size and ROC but without the suspension system and ability to travel at 18 mph. Such a unit could tackle heavier duty tasks, and many property owners have no need to travel so fast.

I have never needed a suspension system to tool around on my 50 acres. Of course, I don't travel very fast, either! But even in my Bobcat 753 skidsteer, which many people consider to have a very rough ride, I find that my optional suspension SEAT provides ample comfort.

I would hate to see the 4600 turn out to be another unit that can't use the digger attachment.

These comments, of course, simply represent my own needs and experience.

Danny

 

[bam747]

Re: Why can\'t Toolcat use the Digger?

Hummm...

Maybe Bobcat could modify the Toolcat's suspension so that it could be locked up for heavy digging work.

Sounds like a potential rev D modification to me! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[BrianSouthernMD]

Re: Why can\'t Toolcat use the Digger?

dannyk,
Thanks for posting the Digger use info you received from Bobcat Company.

There are always tradeoffs in a multi-purpose machine. I've gotten used to and like the Toolcat's suspension, and am still able to do significant work with lots of attachments. Of course digging is done with a bit more care and some limits. But my Toolcat works around 168 acres of varying terrain rather than 50 acres, so I guess I appreciate the suspension and higher travel speed a bit more! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[dannyk]

Re: Why can\'t Toolcat use the Digger?

Of course, Brian, I am not disagreeing with you. Bobcat has very effectively targeted large property owners, municipalities, and landscapers with the excellent Toolcat. But, hey, you already have your machine! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif And I'm trying to speak for people with, say, 10-80 acres. This is a vast market also, judging by compact tractor sales.

And what I would like to see is a unit with equivalent working abilities to the S130 or S150 that isn't going to tear up turf and that can use skid steer attachments. And tractor loaders don't cut it for me.

So far there are few machines that meet those capabilities. The Kubota R series loaders are interesting, but quite expensive and too tall for my garage. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif These loaders can also use a backhoe. The A300 is just overkill in too many ways. Gehl has some new wheel loaders, but these are also too large and heavy for the landowners I'm speaking of.

The 4600 is (according to my Bobcat sales rep) going to be narrower than the 5600, and so I doubt it will have adequate lifting and digging capabilities for my use. I hope I'm wrong.

I have a solution! Offer a 5600 (call it the 5000 or whatever) and delete the suspension. A good suspension SEAT could be standard. Costs could be further reduced by simplifying the tranny. People with less land don't have to go as fast! And we don't need seating for two, although it could be an option.

One other idea: On my skid steer, I can easily remove and re-install the door, the side windows, and a top panel, so I don't need air conditioning in the summer. In the winter, I can put them all back on quickly, and I have a heated cab. (I'm obviously speaking from a northern Minnesota perspective here.) It seems to me it wouldn't be too hard to have similar flexibility with the Toolcat. No doors in summer means easier in and out.

Is Bobcat going to target this market? Stay tuned.

Danny

 

[dannyk]

Re: Why can\'t Toolcat use the Digger?

I'm just going to add two points to my previous post.

First, the interest in PowerTrac is ample evidence that there is a market for the machine I described above.

Second, to save even more money, substitute front-wheel-steer for all-wheel-steer. Sure the AWS is nice. But consider a 40-hp tractor with loader and rear weight on the three point. It is longer than the Toolcat, yet has only front-wheel-steer.

Danny