Why Diesel???

[firedog]

Ecellent John!

To add to that: for optimum towing performance the diesel gets a lower stall convertor. Only problem is, THEY DIDN'T..........

Not sure what is happening now, but the earlier ISB cummins had a higher stall convertor than it should have. Why??? To save the tranny & diff. The stall speed on the stock convertor was right at the end of the torque curve. This kept from overpowering the tranny & diff. So with all the power I can make in the engine, I can't put it on the ground. (another reason why serious players are not just boosting power but running lower stall triple lock billet convertors and heavy duty components).

Point is, with the higher stall T/C; the power is buffered at the tranny, which makes it sluggish off the line. (the stock 3rd gen. ISB 0-60 was greater than 16 secs) Once the T/C is locked up, you can pull anything you want.

 

[crbr]

On edit - shucks, I forgot. If you really want the straight skinny - PM "kennedydiesel". He has a diesel performance shop and undoubtedly has forgotten more than I will ever know. He has his own in shop dyno too. Calls it a lie detector....

Kennedy's place.

TheDieselPage.com Forums

If he doesn't know, it doesn't need to be known. KennedyDiesel is indeed good people.

John is a valuable resource and a wealth of information. He has everything a man can need in his line of business.

 

[KICK]

Anyway, I still think there are good practical reasons to get diesel, but they aren't necessarily the right choice for all or even a majority of truck buyers.

exactly

 

[Renze]

You guys might be interested in some European input into the diesel vs. gas, work truck vs. daily driver discussion:

My first car was an LPG converted Volvo 440 1.7 liter, a 1991 model. It burned a liter of LPG every 7 km, but LPG used to be 50 cents per liter last time i needed it... that was 5 years ago.
Then i had 2 Diesel 440's which were both 1996 models, 1.9 turbo diesel intercooler. Even with my driving style, i got at least 14.5 km out of 1 liter Diesel. Diesel used to be somewhere near 88 cents when i got my first diesel, now its a bit above 1 Euro.

Petrol in Holland, is about 1,50 Euro per liter.

I drive at least 25.000 km a year, which makes either LPG or Diesel the only economically responsible choiches for me.
As LPG converted cars burn at higher temperatures, they regulary need a head overhaul at 200.000 km. The LPG conversion doesnt make them really reliable either.
Anyhow, they are cheap to buy for a young lad.

Next to that, i dont like the flimsy stuff they build nowadays. So i bought a 1996 Volvo 850 TDI, with 310.000 km on the clock when i bought it. Now it has 328.000 km since february this year. I hope to do at least another 200.000 km with this rig.

I get about 13 km out of a liter of Diesel fuel.
...(This isnt enough for a modern, high geared, direct injected diesel that runs 80 km/h at 1500 rpm.
I want to close the EGR port to increase the efficiency and lower the smoke emission... this will result in a slightly higher NoX emissions at low engine loads due to the more efficient combustion, with more oxygen, at a higher temperature. At the annual safety inspection they will only measure the smoke, not the NoX so closing the EGR port will be beneficial for the smoke test as well as for my fuel bill.)...

Fuel in Europe is very expensive, so it would sooner make sense to drive diesel at less kilometers per year, in smaller cars.

Volkswagen even sells small cars weighing just about 900 kg, with a 1.5 liter TDI engine !! They can do 100 km with just 3 liters of fuel.

The fuel economy and durability, next to the great sound of this inline 5 cylinder engine, the smooth performance with flat torque curve, are the reasons i drive Diesel in my 850 saloon, which i drive just alone by myself, to work 80 km every day. I only pull trailers about twice a month.

As a rule of thumb, in Europe it makes sense to go Diesel or LPG when you drive more than 20.000 km each year.
In France, 80% of all cars is Diesel, even the small ones.



...Now describe American Pickups in Europe:

ABSOLUTELY 100% !!! of all gas powered pickups that are imported to Europe are converted to LPG.
Most of them are Diesels anyways.

Parts for a Mercedes Sprinter with the 3.5L V6 gas engine are very hard to get, because MB didnt sell any in Europe: The 3.5 gas engine is just for the North American market.
small and medium delivery vans using petrol, are a rare breed in Europe. as long as i can remember, the mail was delivered by a little red Van with a non turbocharged 1.5 Diesel engine, first at 50 hp but the latest versions of the Renault Kangoo have 60 hp from their 1.5 common rail diesels.

This is not adding anything valuable to diesel vs. gas pickups in America debate, but i thought you might find it interesting how Europeans look totally different upon the gas vs. Diesel choice...

 

[john_bud]

13km / liter is about 30 mpg.

100 km / 3 liter is 77 mpg

Who needs a prius?

jb

 

[KICK]

.

This is not adding anything valuable to diesel vs. gas pickups in America debate, but i thought you might find it interesting how Europeans look totally different upon the gas vs. Diesel choice...

I can buy gas for 2.75 a gallon

Diesel is a 3.15

the gas engine is standard, by the time I buy that diesel I might have spent another 7k.

the diesel will pay for itself over time, but that is only if I don;t have any problems.

but we'd be rahashing the whole thread here.

 

[mjncad]

Mostly it's the black smoke and the sound though. The other debating point is the need for a dually. I was talking to my business partner about that this weekend too. I don't know how critical it is. I've seen some regular trucks pulling some hoss loads, but the dually also just looks meaner, besides the side-to-side stability and braking power it adds.

No disrespect to Spiveyman; but I can't stand dually pickups unless the pickup body has been replaced by a flatbed or similar type of truck body. From the front, a dually looks like it's being held back by a boat anchor so to speak; and from the rear, a dually looks like a woman with a fat butt.

OK, back on topic. Most of the power-train discussion has centered on having automatics as the transmission of choice. If diesel mileage drops and gasser mileage and performance increases, I wonder if we will see a resurgence of manual transmissions. I sure hope so as I hate automatics because of their gear hunting going uphill and lousy retarding ability going downhill. I always feel I have better control with a manual, and yes I know an automatic can be downshifted.

By the way, I learned to drive on a 2-speed iron case (slip and slide with) Powerglide tranny in a '55 Chevy car. I taught myself to drive a manual by going to Buy Here-Pay Here car lots test driving cars as a cash strapped 20-something.

At Colorado's altitude with a gas engine, "There is no replacement for displacement," which also is why I chose a V-10 over a V-8 for my F-250.

 

[dieselfuelonly]

No disrespect to Spiveyman; but I can't stand dually pickups unless the pickup body has been replaced by a flatbed or similar type of truck body. From the front, a dually looks like it's being held back by a boat anchor so to speak; and from the rear, a dually looks like a woman with a fat butt.

Are you calling my truck FAT???!!!

 

[em14]

"OK, back on topic. Most of the power-train discussion has centered on having automatics as the transmission of choice. If diesel mileage drops and gasser mileage and performance increases, I wonder if we will see a resurgence of manual transmissions. I sure hope so as I hate automatics because of their gear hunting going uphill and lousy retarding ability going downhill. I always feel I have better control with a manual, and yes I know an automatic can be downshifted."

I understand what you mean, but, I have not had any problems with my Allison "hunting" for gears no matter the size of the load or hill.
Leo

 

[john_bud]

OK, back on topic. Most of the power-train discussion has centered on having automatics as the transmission of choice. If diesel mileage drops and gasser mileage and performance increases, I wonder if we will see a resurgence of manual transmissions. I sure hope so as I hate automatics because of their gear hunting going uphill and lousy retarding ability going downhill. I always feel I have better control with a manual, and yes I know an automatic can be downshifted.

.

Well, you may not have driven a GM Allison with the tow/haul button pressed. Coast down a steep hill and it will hold speed, tap the brake and it will downshift smartly. No hunting with my 10k loads.

A manual will have better control, but fewer and fewer people know what to do with one. Only Dodge still offers a manual with a diesel in the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, which is a shame.

jb