Why do CUT owners/buyers have low expectations?

[bp fick]

I've still been mulling the original proposition over in my mind.

Let's say an OEM somewhere committed to building a tractor, today, patterned off the constructs of the 1950's iron. I don't mean copy, but employ a similar thought process.

Let's say they used cast iron more and lighter weight alloy less, used nothing but the heaviest, longest lasting, simplest designs known to them. In this make-believe scenario, they would be 100% sold out to longevity to the exclusion of anything being included that wasn't designed, to their satisfaction, for a 50-70 year lifespan. Two questions come to mind.

First, what would such a design cost? 50% more? I know, it's a sheer guess, but I question how it could succeed, given the build cost. Sheer guess, but if it doubled the price of a $20K CUT to $40K, who'd buy it?

Second, what aspects or features that consumer's prefer today might have to be eliminated under a build-for-60-year life span manufacturing philosophy, if any?

Aren't today's consumers conditioned to believe that in 5 years, what they have now will be super-ceded by even "cooler" products? The iPod generation effect, perhaps?

 

[sweettractors]

I've still been mulling the original proposition over in my mind.

Let's say an OEM somewhere committed to building a tractor, today, patterned off the constructs of the 1950's iron. I don't mean copy, but employ a similar thought process.

Let's say they used cast iron more and lighter weight alloy less, used nothing but the heaviest, longest lasting, simplest designs known to them. In this make-believe scenario, they would be 100% sold out to longevity to the exclusion of anything being included that wasn't designed, to their satisfaction, for a 50-70 year lifespan. Two questions come to mind.

First, what would such a design cost? 50% more? I know, it's a sheer guess, but I question how it could succeed, given the build cost. Sheer guess, but if it doubled the price of a $20K CUT to $40K, who'd buy it?

Second, what aspects or features that consumer's prefer today might have to be eliminated under a build-for-60-year life span manufacturing philosophy, if any?

Aren't today's consumers conditioned to believe that in 5 years, what they have now will be super-ceded by even "cooler" products? The iPod generation effect, perhaps?

You make a excellent point. I would be the first in line to buy that tractor that you describe. My basic tractor would have 8 speeds forward and 2 reverses, ROPS, Power Steering, Live PTO, Standard 3 point lift, Wide front, Diff Lock rear axle, Easy rider seat, oil pressure gauge, Amp gauge, Tachometer, Locking brake pedals, 2 wheel drive and of course a diesel engine. Now my way of thinking, this tractor should cost 50% LESS than we are paying for the maxed out CUT's today. No we don't need 4 wheel drive. We farm 350 acres with 2 wheel drive tractors and feed 150 head of cattle in all weather conditions and 4x4 is really not a necessity. (I just thought of something, I just described a 3000 Ford or 150 Massey or 2020 John Deere or a 484 International). Ken Sweet

 

[Gittyup]

You make a excellent point. I would be the first in line to buy that tractor that you describe. My basic tractor would have 8 speeds forward and 2 reverses, ROPS, Power Steering, Live PTO, Standard 3 point lift, Wide front, Diff Lock rear axle, Easy rider seat, oil pressure gauge, Amp gauge, Tachometer, Locking brake pedals, 2 wheel drive and of course a diesel engine. Now my way of thinking, this tractor should cost 50% LESS than we are paying for the maxed out CUT's today. No we don't need 4 wheel drive. We farm 350 acres with 2 wheel drive tractors and feed 150 head of cattle in all weather conditions and 4x4 is really not a necessity. (I just thought of something, I just described a 3000 Ford or 150 Massey or 2020 John Deere or a 484 International). Ken Sweet

And doesn't this also describe the basic Utility/Ag tractor (non compact) made today? And aren't they as good or better than the tractors of old?

A CUT was not developed to replace the true utility/ag tractor. But, rather to address the small estate/hobby farmer, and as a chore-boss for farms without replacing the field tractor.

 

[slowzuki]

Yup, and at least up till a couple of years ago MF sold the 135 like that with a little nicer skins. Surprise though, didn't sell well.

To be fair, a cab, thermostart, electric starter, 3 point hitch, power steering etc all aren't needed really. But I won't be without them.

You also won't find me struggling in hills and snow with a 2wd loader tractor ever again. Oh I know I could get the cork chains out and spend half the day getting them on, but then I can't go down the road because they went and paved it about 50 years ago.

You won't find me using a gravity trip loader, or a 3 ph loader either. You won't find me without a heater, madly scraping at the inside of the cab glass.

Nope, I'm glad for some of the changes!

You make a excellent point. I would be the first in line to buy that tractor that you describe. My basic tractor would have 8 speeds forward and 2 reverses, ROPS, Power Steering, Live PTO, Standard 3 point lift, Wide front, Diff Lock rear axle, Easy rider seat, oil pressure gauge, Amp gauge, Tachometer, Locking brake pedals, 2 wheel drive and of course a diesel engine. Now my way of thinking, this tractor should cost 50% LESS than we are paying for the maxed out CUT's today. No we don't need 4 wheel drive. We farm 350 acres with 2 wheel drive tractors and feed 150 head of cattle in all weather conditions and 4x4 is really not a necessity. (I just thought of something, I just described a 3000 Ford or 150 Massey or 2020 John Deere or a 484 International). Ken Sweet

 

[IslandTractor]

You make a excellent point. I would be the first in line to buy that tractor that you describe. My basic tractor would have 8 speeds forward and 2 reverses, ROPS, Power Steering, Live PTO, Standard 3 point lift, Wide front, Diff Lock rear axle, Easy rider seat, oil pressure gauge, Amp gauge, Tachometer, Locking brake pedals, 2 wheel drive and of course a diesel. Ken Sweet

Ken, those types of tractors are still built and sold in countries like India. Only problem is the US market for them is almost nonexistent since the modern more feature packed CUTs became available.

Blame Kubota for this situation but only if you also consider a "perfect car" to be something like a '55 Chevy.

I understand the retro appeal of simpler designs but I'd personally choose a moderately equipped new CUT as they are more efficient in getting work done, safer and more comfortable to operate. I suspect a good percentage of them will still be running in fifty years too. Hard to judge what percentage will make it that far but that also is true for the venerable old Fords etc. What % of all Ford or MF tractors built before 1960 are really still in practical use by someone other than a tractor hobbiest? No doubt many are but probably a small fraction of those built.

 

[VroomVroom]

I agree, I have a new mahindra 2816hst, and an old super M farmall. Although the mahindra is a fine tractor, looks built stronger then some of its competitors, I will expect that long after that tractor is gone, the super M will still be going.

 

[sweettractors]

I agree, I have a new mahindra 2816hst, and an old super M farmall. Although the mahindra is a fine tractor, looks built stronger then some of its competitors, I will expect that long after that tractor is gone, the super M will still be going.

We have a 460 Farmall here on the farm that gets a lot of work through out the year. It has already outlived 1 owner. Ken Sweet

 

[Dr_Zinj]

Low expectations is one of the reasons why most CUT owners recommend buying a model or two higher than the minimum requirements for their jobs.

Sure, I could get away with a 20 to 25 hp machine, I barely made it with an old 18hp, 2 lung Kubota. But that kind of stress on that light a tractor takes a major toll. Yeah, it's overkill, but 'm shooting for a 35 hp model with the expectation that it WILL do all the jobs I need it to do, and last a couple decades at least with regular servicing and minimal repairs.

 

[wny770]

I agree, I have a new mahindra 2816hst, and an old super M farmall. Although the mahindra is a fine tractor, looks built stronger then some of its competitors, I will expect that long after that tractor is gone, the super M will still be going.

That's kinda my sentiment. My NH T1510 is GREAT! 4X4, PS Loader etc... BUT my '42 Farmall A..... ORIGINAL engine.... and only 2nd clutch after 69 years still gets crank started every year to plow the garden. Realize in 1942 what my Gramps paid for that Farmall compared to what he made... Times are different. I guess it boils down to what we want VS what they needed back then. There is a difference. (I still like running the new one better )......

 

[tessiers]

I agree, I have a new mahindra 2816hst, and an old super M farmall. Although the mahindra is a fine tractor, looks built stronger then some of its competitors, I will expect that long after that tractor is gone, the super M will still be going.

I agree with the past observations that the 2 machines are not the same. I have a 05' JD 4x4, which I love for loader work, period. All my hay is done with Farmall H, because, I like the way it rides, no nostalgia there. Plain old workhorse, seat is 5' off the ground and I get a direct line of sight into the pickup, no compact I have been on is as good as that old H in that respect. I haul wood with a Logging winch behind a Ford NAA, works better than the JD any day of the week Sits low, wide and hauls just as much. Best of all when the farmall or ford doesn't crank, I can usually get it going with a quick trip to Motor Supply and finish my haying. I actually split my ford in 20 minutes, changed a PTO shaft and had it back up and running an hour later. Actually went so good I put it back together with the bad shaft so I could use it to rake hay while the parts were ordered. Only took 2 days to get them. The 2 times my new tractors wouldn't start, dealers got involved, both times it cost me more than I paid for my Farmall.

Some real good points have been made, some I agree with and some I don't, but we all have different needs and expectations.

Thanks All for a good read