Why no Ecoboost in the F250?

[Hay Dude]

Cummins was known for its market entrance in 1989 with a fantastic inline 6 among two mediocre V8s.
So even in that aspect, using the cylinder design in a 3.7 liter inline 6 configuration would cash out their reputation.

I would put these cylinders in a row of six, drop the redline to around 3500rpm and up the power to 270hp, and it becomes the standard diesel for 2500 pickups, where EV and Ecoboost have no place.

Yes. Stick with what works, and keep improving it.
Today, reliability is the thing that needs the most improvement. They have a great design in the 6.7L. I say improve the reliability of sensors. Put 2 in each end of the DPF instead of one. One fails, the other works. Don’t have one failed sensor shut the truck down. Build a DEF system thats capable of better reliability.

I see more L-9’s out there now. Would like to see more of them in larger farm tractors.

 

[Renze]

Why not just go to a 5.9 6bt. Already developed and in production

Nope. 6bt is no longer in production, not even in China, as their emission stage is equal to the American stage 3 offroad emissions, which even the 24 valve didnt meet.

Developing the 5.9 to EPA 2010 standards is more expensive than downtuning an EPA 2010 6.7. The only way of getting a cheaper to buy, cheaper to run Cummins "that is already developed" is to get the 4.5 liter four banger of which the engine emissions are known, which makes it easier to match an aftertreatment system to it, and spend a million on EPA and technical verification tests, then two million on serial production implementation. Problem is, only a handfull of people are willing to accept the NVH that is inherent to a large 4 cylinder so it would be a malinvestment.

I dont blame you for suggesting the impossible though, because ive heard it many times before, when a customer came in with a cracked EGR cooler, rotten injector mantlet, blown head gasket or stuck variable turbo on low hour John Deere engines: "why cant you just put an old Daf (Paccar predecessor) in it like you used to: We ran the DAF to 27.000hrs without problems, then we got the 5.9 Cummins which was not bad, but now with these Deeres we have crap every 3000hrs"

 

[Renze]

I see more L-9’s out there now. Wold like to see more of them in larger farm tractors.

Versatile is the only manufacturer still using the L9. Case uses FPT engines, which used to be the fruit of a Cummins-Fiat joint venture to provide Iveco with engines after they realised their joint development with Nissan would never hit the market in early 1996 when Euro 2 emissions became mandatory. International happened to have a production line to spare, because the new MX Magnum would get engines built by Cummins Darlington, UK not CIH Neuss, which would be closed in 1996.

Now when Tenneco bought Case, Fiat Group owned 50% of the Case/Cummins CDC joint venture, in Columbus, and 50% of the European Engine Alliance in Italy.

The Italians said we now own 50% through Case and 50% through Iveco, now why dont we keep whats ours, and you keep whats yours, and stopped paying royalties to Cummins for the engine design. Thats why Case IH currently runs Cummins based engines, but with the better emission strategy, and produced in Italy.

I think the only reason for them to buy Case (and sell Doncaster and St.Dizier to Landini, Winnipeg to Buhler) was to get full ownership of the B and C series engine design...

 

[Hay Dude]

I feel like a kid in a candy store with the older pre-emissions tractors. There’s hundreds of Maxxums & Magnums out there with 5.9’s, 6.7’s and 8.3’s.
I’d really like to find L-9 power out there, but not many. Love the sound & the torque of them.

Plus there are other really fine pre emissions tractors with SISU, MAN, CAT power out there in excellent running condition loaded with comfort features.
Ran my Challenger all day yesterday stacking bales and couldn’t believe the difference in ride quality and its a 12 year old 2011 tractor! Guess I’m easily pleased lol.

I feel like a decent sized group of American farmers would be excited to buy a farm tractor with a Cummins engine in it.

 

[Birdhunter1]

Well back to the original post before it got taken over by a diesel conversation..... The ecoboost is a great engine, it will handle well beyond what the F150 suspension should handle and does it at very low rpms for a gas engine.

I have a 2014 F 150 with the 3.5. I haul a three horse trailer around in hill country, I drag a tractor often enough to do small jobs, I haul hay multiple times a year. I've outfitted my truck with air bags as my horse trailer is very nose heavy. It will easily do what a 3.4 ton was needed for 20 years ago, it is the perfect truck for someone like me who doens't need and can't afford a diesel truck buts wanted a newer truck 5 years ago when I got it. Honestly if Ford were to put the Ecoboost in an F 250 I would be the ideal buyer for it that oftens runs out of suspension before engine.

 

[hiddentacocatneddih]

Nope. 6bt is no longer in production, not even in China, as their emission stage is equal to the American stage 3 offroad emissions, which even the 24 valve didnt meet.

Developing the 5.9 to EPA 2010 standards is more expensive than downtuning an EPA 2010 6.7. The only way of getting a cheaper to buy, cheaper to run Cummins "that is already developed" is to get the 4.5 liter four banger of which the engine emissions are known, which makes it easier to match an aftertreatment system to it, and spend a million on EPA and technical verification tests, then two million on serial production implementation. Problem is, only a handfull of people are willing to accept the NVH that is inherent to a large 4 cylinder so it would be a malinvestment.

I dont blame you for suggesting the impossible though, because ive heard it many times before, when a customer came in with a cracked EGR cooler, rotten injector mantlet, blown head gasket or stuck variable turbo on low hour John Deere engines: "why cant you just put an old Daf (Paccar predecessor) in it like you used to: We ran the DAF to 27.000hrs without problems, then we got the 5.9 Cummins which was not bad, but now with these Deeres we have crap every 3000hrs"

I thought they were still in production for military and industrial. We had newer generators when I was in the usaf

The 6b is in the new kubota as a 6.7

 

[mred2]

I don't recall anyone saying anything on the F250 with the 7.3 gas burner.

 

[Renze]

I feel like a decent sized group of American farmers would be excited to buy a farm tractor with a Cummins engine in it.

Sweet dreams about what yesteryears engines were... if CNH had kept the Cummins for Tier 4 interim, and changed to its FPT derivate for Tier 4 final, people wouldnt have such fond memories of Cummins: FPT definately had the better powertrain, with no EGR, not even a wastegate on the turbo under 200hp, clean, efficient combustion and little problems. Cummins didnt want to sell their 6.7 for wheel loader use in ratings above 225hp because they relied heavily on EGR which required a VGT to get any sort of transient response from an engine which needed boost first to push fresh air next to the recirculated exhaust gases to produce exhaust gas temperature, which expansion drives the turbo. The FPT engine breathes fresh air at all times, so all it needs is a squirt of fuel to take off. I was truely amazed of how peppy the 255hp 6.7 FPT in the Case 821 wheel loader was, given the fact that it had a simple wastegated turbo...

I mean, the Cummins 5.9 could run 20.000hrs at 155hp in a 13 ton wheel loader, but it was toast within 8000hrs running at 185hp in the 16 ton model, it just wasnt heavy duty enough for continous high power, and the Cummins CAPS fuel injection system used on the 8.3 was a lemon too, fortunately they didnt sell it for more than 1 or 2 years before they went to Bosch common rail..
Cummins builds good engines, but even the B and C series werent always perfect...

 

[hiddentacocatneddih]

The vp44 was a thorn in the cummins as well

 

[Renze]

I thought they were still in production for military and industrial. We had newer generators when I was in the usaf

The 6b is in the new kubota as a 6.7

They might have ran them side by side while there was still a market with less legislation.. Generators have a single operating speed approval, which makes tuning an older engine to meet emissions at governed speed (1500rpm for 50 Hz, 1800rpm for 60 Hz) easier than a variable speed type approval.

And the Detroit series 71 was used in the HEMMT and HET while not meeting any emission norm at all... Thats why Oshkosh made a Cat C18 Euro 3 emission version for the UK... but even the US army cant get away with it anymore...

And the big Kubota isnt a Kubota, its an orange Versatile...