Why not pull a wagon behind a baler?

[Robert_in_NY]

I'm one of those ground drop idiots. But with hills and a small tractor, I'd tear it up trying to pull a wagon too. Also my thrower is missing its hydraulic pump and other parts so it would be almost 2000$ to get it back in service. I don't make enough margin on my squares to pay for that right now.

I would sure love to get a bale wagon or get a bigger tractor for a thrower, maybe someday in the future.

Now Zuk, you know I don't think of you as an idiot. I started this thread after watching a youtube video and thinking of one farmer who uses some of my fields if I don't need them. They have tractors that can handle pulling a flat rack and stack the hay as they bale but instead he drops it on the ground and then another vehicle shows up with a trailer and a couple extra guys and they start picking up the bales. They have the guys, why fight gravity and more then they have to? The youtube video was the same way, the guy is baling and on the other side of the field they are picking the bales up by hand. These are flat fields too

I just can't see why people would want to make haying any harder then it already is. Picking the bales up more then once to get them off the field doesn't seem easier. Just take them off the chute and stack it. Handle each bale as few times as possible is what I strive for.

 

[DLMaine01]

I worked for a Dairy Farmer in Maine in the late 80's. His rule was you never ever let a bale hit the ground. We did around 15,000 bales a year. JD equipment all the way but tractor pto hp was 55 max, the rest was skill. I have worked many a hay trailer and prefered it to working in the hay loft. We put 125 bales per trailer and often doubled up the trailers on the tractors for transport back to the barn. Ah the good ole day's!!!
But if I ever buy a square baler it will be a John Deere and of course I will never ever let a bale hit the ground.

 

[bontai_Joe]

It's been a lot of years since I was one of those high school kids working on the farm. Back in 1968 -1972 I rode my bike about 3 miles to a wealthy retired man's "hobby" farm. Around 125 acres in north west NJ with some beef cows and a horse riding school. The haying was done by a hired hand using a Farmall Super M, baler with a kicker and kick wagons on reasonably flat fields. There was 2 of us teenagers working back at the barn unloading wagons, one in the wagon, one in the barn loft. We had an electric elevator that we threw the bales from the wagon on to deliver them to the loft. Average wagon had around 125 to 140 bales in it. When the wagon was empty, the retired man we worked for took it back to the field and swapped it for a full one. using a 1950's vintage Willy's Jeep I think he had 3 wagons. My buddy Clark and I would do 7 or 8 wagons a day for the princely sum of $1.25 per hour. It was minimum wage, but big money for a 13 year old kid at that time, and it was paid in cash (no deductions!)
As we got older, bigger stronger and hopefully smarter, we started doing other jobs on the farm, like painting/repairing fences, cutting the lawn around the houses, and driving some of the equipment. Now almost 40 years later, one of my co-workers cuts hay for horse owners in northern NJ and gets $3.50 a bale and they pick it up and load it at his place. he is using an old Deere 520, an ancient IH kick baler and home made wagons with his wife as a helper. I see small square bales being around as long as folks have horses on their semi suburban lots.

Oh! Almost forgot to mention that I've never seen wire tied bales, everyone around the area seems to use twine on small bales. But many of even the small acre farms have switched to round bales if it's for their own use.

 

[rtimgray]

We tried pulling a wagon behind a baler years and years ago and gave it up very quickly. Our problem was manpower. Yes, you can have one person stack with the bales coming out of the baler, but we only had two wagons and did not have access to more - and they were small wagons - 80 bales or so. After filling them up, the bales hit the ground and the stacker could not unload them by himself, because he had to wait until the rest of the crew showed up (usually we didn't start hauling until 4 or 5 oclock because of work or school).

My dad would usually start raking at 10 or 11 in the morning (after the dew was off the hay), the baler would start at about 1 or 2 in the afternoon, and the crew would show up at 4 or 5. We started using flatbed trailers that haul 110 bales, and use a driver, one or two stackers, and two throwers. That crew was effective in unloading into the various barns. We can usually haul 150 to 200 bales per hour over the course of an evening, depending on distance to barn, type of barn, experience of crew, etc. Plus, it lets us haul during the cooler part of the day and into the night (if we want to).

The best thing, though, is obviously to do what works well for your operation.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

We tried pulling a wagon behind a baler years and years ago and gave it up very quickly. Our problem was manpower. Yes, you can have one person stack with the bales coming out of the baler, but we only had two wagons and did not have access to more - and they were small wagons - 80 bales or so. After filling them up, the bales hit the ground and the stacker could not unload them by himself, because he had to wait until the rest of the crew showed up (usually we didn't start hauling until 4 or 5 oclock because of work or school).

My dad would usually start raking at 10 or 11 in the morning (after the dew was off the hay), the baler would start at about 1 or 2 in the afternoon, and the crew would show up at 4 or 5. We started using flatbed trailers that haul 110 bales, and use a driver, one or two stackers, and two throwers. That crew was effective in unloading into the various barns. We can usually haul 150 to 200 bales per hour over the course of an evening, depending on distance to barn, type of barn, experience of crew, etc. Plus, it lets us haul during the cooler part of the day and into the night (if we want to).

The best thing, though, is obviously to do what works well for your operation.

But did you fill the two wagons behind the baler first so those 160 bales wouldn't touch the ground? As I said, why fight gravity any more then you have to.

I disconnected my thrower one time as the horse farm a mile away had their baler break down and their hay was on the ground. I had to pull the belt off that drove the thrower belts and unhook the tensioners so the bales would just drop to the ground. They had flat racks but didn't want to hook them behind my baler. The only reason I could figure was they didn't want to slow us down any as they asked us as a favor. I don't remember what I charged them but it wasn't much as I have been there before and know the helpless feeling you have when your baler breaks down

 

[rtimgray]

No, we gave up on wagons entirely in favor of the trailers. The trailers sit lower to the ground, ride better, haul more, and back better. We haven't used a flat wagon in twenty years.

Again, it's not really about fighting gravity or not in our situation, that's obviously a better way to do it if you have either enough manpower available to unload a manually stacked load as it comes out of the field or enough wagons to handle all you plan on baling at a time. We have neither luxury afforded in our situation, so we just show up as a crew late in the day, pick it up and put it away.

Our other problem, in years past, would have been the reliability of the baler. If we had a crew chasing the baler, and the baler broke down, then we have the whole crew waiting. We usually paid by the hour rather than the bale. When I was younger, I got paid both ways and usually got hosed on the paid by the bale business - they either wanted to make 150 lbs bales or they went so slow that I made about 2 bucks an hour (needless to say, that only happened the first time - I'm a quick learner!). Currently, we pay $12/hour to experienced good help, $8 if your just a body to pick it up but can't stack much, and $6 to drive the tractor (no cab, so the driver is just as hot and dirty as the rest of the crew). Last year, though, my 8 year old nephew and 6 year old son alternated driving. Now before anybody has a fit over that, all they have to do is steer and we go slow enough that if a tight turn or anything else is coming up, one of the ground people can jump up and take over for a bit.

Take it easy.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

How much hay do you guys put up and is it for your own use?

One thing that pops in my mind is the older NH stack wagons you pull behind a tractor. They are great and haul around 100-120 bales. Some of them also had the option to single unload the stack automatically so you pull up to the elevator and it unloads the bales itself. You just need a couple guys in the loft. So if your baler is fast you only need 3 people to do hay, 4 if the baler is slow.

The best part about the old stack wagons is you can get nice ones for just a little money (they are very cheap compared to the higher capacity newer versions). Figuring the prices you are paying for help (and if you have problems finding help) the wagon might be something you are interested in.

 

[rtimgray]

We put up between 12,000 and 20,000 per summer, usually in the 14,000 to 15,000 range. The problem with using a stack wagon would be the variety of barns that we put hay into. We put it in old tobacco barns with tiers every 5' feet that you have to stack around, chicken and hog barns that are long, low and narrow, old barns with narrow doors, lofts in barns (but we have no elevator other than muscle), etc. etc. etc.

With the utility trailers, we can usually either get in the bar or real close to the door and one person and driver usually unload while the rest of us stack. Generally speaking, there may only be one or two paid members of the crew because the rest are family (what a great perk of being a family member, huh?)

 

[Robert_in_NY]

It can be a pain using barns built for other purposes for hay storage. I have to deal with this also (using an old, small dairy barn). If I make a deal to buy one farm I have been asked about (the owners want me to buy it as I farm their ground) then I hope to be able to put a new barn up that will accept a bale wagon to drop a stack inside. With my back the way it is now I do not plan on handling too many bales this year. I actually like stacking hay but when I don't have help or have trouble with the helpers it gets to be a big headache. So ideally I would have either my father or a helper run the bale wagon as I bale unless I only have a small section done and can do both.

I would love to go completely automated as I can deliver a stack to my customers farm and use a loader with a set of grabs to stack the hay into their pole barn that is too low to drop a stack in. They buy 3k bales so it is a headache for me to bring helpers in there. I just need to get my tractor situation taken care of then I can look at buying more equipment.

 

[Wildcat Ranch]

5 haying seasons years ago, I was 13 and it was my first year I ever walked into a baled field to pick up hay. My cousin (who is 11-12 years older then I am) would ask a bunch of friends and family to come after work and they would help stack hay on 3 flatbeds. One 24' and two 16'. I got to drive the trucks through the field for the first 3 years that I helped. Once filled, we would all go back to his house, unload it all into his barn. After, his wife had a delicious meal waiting at the house for everyone.
That stopped 3 haying seasons ago. He started making hay only 2-3 years before I started helping. He didn't have a bale thrower nor wagons. He was looking for a few wagons but they are not very popular in our area.
He got a bale popper 2 years ago and that helped a lot with only me, my cousin, and my little bro loading. The whole time, I didn't get paid except for last year which he paid me $10 an hour. I didn't ask nor expect. He taught me a lot about haying and I felt that it was worth my time.

When I was 14, I got to do all the raking for him.
15, I did all the raking and he let me to do some cutting.
16, I did as much cutting as I was able and all the raking. He also let me get some seat time with the baler.
17, I had a full time job so now I was helping after work with what I could. Cutting, raking, baling and stacking. I was also able to get some time off which helped.

I bought my TN65 a few weeks back and a 1002 pull-type balewagon with money that I saved up. Now, there is no more sweating bucking hay! My cousin plans on paying me so much a load to stack it in his barn. Also, I plan on hiring out to stack for other people. Last year there was bales sitting in fields that got rained on because the farmers couldn't hire anyone to pick them up.

I could see where high school kids would rather sit inside and play computer games or watch tv. It is hard work but I enjoy it. There has to be other kids out there that for a little money and if your willing to explain/show/teach them while they worked, they would strive to help as much as they can.

Now to get back on topic.
We have people who come out and pick up the bales themselves. Why sweat if someone else would do it? Also, if we used a wagon, we would always have to have someone on deck which, wouldn't work for us all the time.
Some of the fields are 3-4 miles away and we sometimes deliver and stack for some people, so going on a trailer makes it easier for traveling but I do have to agree that is a slight waste to drop them on the ground when you are just going to pick them right back up.