Why was steel of decades ago so much better quality than today?

[dmccarty]

Good Story, but Damascus steel was just steel that has been forge folded over and over. Beat it out and fold it again and again. Then treat with acid to bring out all the layers.. And the steel did not come from Damascus.. they just traded for the "pucks" of raw steel called Wootz steel from India. It was shipped all over in these easily handled "pucks".

Yeah, I think it is a good story but I suspect it happened as well. Read years and years ago that slaves/prisoners were used to quench the blade. It was just a passing reference in something I was reading.

There is a really good program on PBS about Viking swords and how they were made. A smith makes one of the swords from making the steel to the final quenching. Pretty interesting. NOVA | Secrets of the Viking Sword He did not quench the sword in a body. :laughing::laughing::laughing:

They really don't know if the Viking made the steel, or more likely, imported the steel from the Middle East in billets.

Later,
Dan

 

[pastorjeep]

Hey DFB, I sent you a PM.

 

[Egon]

Yeah, I think it is a good story but I suspect it happened as well. Read years and years ago that slaves/prisoners were used to quench the blade. It was just a passing reference in something I was reading.

There is a really good program on PBS about Viking swords and how they were made. A smith makes one of the swords from making the steel to the final quenching. Pretty interesting. NOVA | Secrets of the Viking Sword He did not quench the sword in a body. :laughing::laughing::laughing:

They really don't know if the Viking made the steel, or more likely, imported the steel from the Middle East in billets.

Later,
Dan

The quenching added nitrogen to the sword.

 

[dmccarty]

The quenching added nitrogen to the sword.

And I wonder if it added carbon to the steel as well. :confused3:

The video I linked is really good. Especially when the smith quenches the sword in oil, pulls the sword from the container and the oil catches fire. :laughing::laughing::laughing: Really cool looking. Except for the car tail lights you see in the background. If there was a fault in the steel, the sword with ping as a crack formed and the sword would be scrap. I think the smith would have cried if that had happened and I would not blame him one bit for all of the work he put into that sword.

Later,
Dan

 

[k0ua]

And I wonder if it added carbon to the steel as well. :confused3:

The video I linked is really good. Especially when the smith quenches the sword in oil, pulls the sword from the container and the oil catches fire. :laughing::laughing::laughing: Really cool looking. Except for the car tail lights you see in the background. If there was a fault in the steel, the sword with ping as a crack formed and the sword would be scrap. I think the smith would have cried if that had happened and I would not blame him one bit for all of the work he put into that sword.

Later,
Dan

The Vikings apparently harvested their own iron from bogs to make their steel.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bog_iron

 

[Egon]

And I wonder if it added carbon to the steel as well. :confused3:

The video I linked is really good. Especially when the smith quenches the sword in oil, pulls the sword from the container and the oil catches fire. :laughing::laughing::laughing: Really cool looking. Except for the car tail lights you see in the background. If there was a fault in the steel, the sword with ping as a crack formed and the sword would be scrap. I think the smith would have cried if that had happened and I would not blame him one bit for all of the work he put into that sword.

Later,
Dan

Case hardening. Nitrideing.

The really old Damascus steel properties were supposedly the same as the ore all came from one source and was smelted on site into "pucks" for transportation.

A replica Viking Village in Newfoundland has bog iron smelting/forgeing equipment replicas. It's all a replica of on site excavations.

 

[dmccarty]

The Vikings apparently harvested their own iron from bogs to make their steel.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bog_iron

That is interesting. Our well water is full of iron and we have some springs on our place with the oily film.

The video showed the smith making the steel he needed. It was NOT a sophisticated operation, and with the exception of gas he used for heat, the process was actually quite crude and simple. Course, once you know how do to something it is almost always simple.

The advantage of the swords in question was that they could bend without breaking which was the huge advantage these swords had over regular steel.

Later,
Dan

 

[flusher]

As steel is recycled other metals inadvertently get mixed with the steel scrap that goes into the furnace along with the new iron and alloy metals. The amount of trace contaminants in succeeding batches steadily increases unless measures are taken to ensure this doesn't happen. Measures which invariably increase the cost of the steel. The more scrap in the batch, the more contaminants are introduced that degrade the properties of the steel. This has been a big concern at least since the 1960s.

 

[ultrarunner]

Way back when I took a year long course in Welding... the school was getting steel stock for free from a local mill... angle, flats, plates, hot and cold rolled stock.

The only deal was we had to give it back... the owners of the mill said it came back better because of the welding rod and wire added... a win/win

 

[k0ua]

That is interesting. Our well water is full of iron and we have some springs on our place with the oily film.

The video showed the smith making the steel he needed. It was NOT a sophisticated operation, and with the exception of gas he used for heat, the process was actually quite crude and simple. Course, once you know how do to something it is almost always simple.

The advantage of the swords in question was that they could bend without breaking which was the huge advantage these swords had over regular steel.

Later,
Dan

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