Will it Land

[ccsial]

A Cessna 150 is on short final for a 3000 foot runway. There is a magic fan blowing a headwind up the runway at 100 MPH.

The question is:

Will it land.

 

[MrJimi]

YES

Jim

 

[chh]

One thing I learned while taking lessons to get my pilots certificate was that a plane will always land one way or the other. In your senario though, No the relative speed winds speeds would stop forward motion. In fact 100 mph is near full throttle for a Cessna 150. Of course to increase speed you could trade altitude for airspeed(dive), but that sure wouldn't be a pretty "landing".

 

[Egon]

In some areas of southern Alberta there will be no need for the "Magic Fan". That is just the normal afternoon Breeze.

As for the Cessna; it's gonna land, sooner or later. Just don't know where or when!

 

[Runner]

It depends on the temperature, and pressure altitude of the runway. According to the pilot operating handbook for the 1978 C152 (close enough) it will do 110 knots true air speed at sea level. This is about 126 miles per hour, so it could theoretically land and you'd be doing about 26 mph down the runway.

This airspeed requires the optional "speed fairings" on the wheels which gives you about 5mph more airspeed. (and you thought they were just for looks...)

 

[Z-Michigan]

As an aside I got my pilot's license in a plane (Diamond DA20A1 Katana) with a stall speed of about 37kts with flaps / 41kts clean. And the stall is so gentle and gradual you can fly just a few kts above that with ease. One day in winter I was flying and winds at just 2500ft AGL were in the 50kt range. I had some fun hovering, and even flying backward relative to the ground. Fortunately the DA20 has about 110kt max cruise so I had no problem returning to the airport. Fuel consumption per mile would not have been good for that little flight!

As for your question, I would think you would fly the pattern offset about 2-3 miles from the airport, and then land in reverse. This would be incredibly difficult to do and I don't know if the landing gear would survive reverse loads like that, but at least you could (theoretically) land at a reasonable groundspeed and without running out of runway. A downwind landing would also work if you had, say, a 12,000 foot runway, though the tires probably aren't designed for landing speeds of 150mph. As a practical matter, of course, you would simply look for an airport with lesser winds. I don't know a C152's crosswind limit but I'm guessing it's more like 15kts than 100mph!

 

[Runner]

This is all totally theoretical, of course. You'd have to be Bob Hoover to be able to actually perform a maneuver like that, and once you "flew" the thing onto the ground, you couldn't actually stop or park it or anything. If you tried to actually stop or turn to taxi, the wind would just blow the aircraft away.

 

[MrJimi]

Before this thread turns into a 850 plus thread, His only question was

will it land

 

[Tig]

As long as we have gravity, all planes will land in one way or another.

 

[MrJimi]

As long as we have gravity, all planes will land in one way or another.

Thats exactly correct Shh and that is all he asked

 

[laurencen]

I have never considered landing in such wind but given it as the only option it would land, definatly take a wile, I would expect to get on final, then one could reduce the airspeed to just above the wind speed and touch down, worst headwind myself was 35mph in Pincher Creek Alberta, wind capital of Canada, the touchdown speed would have been less than 20mph, it took forever to land but on the other hand only used about 150 foot of runway and the takeoff was not much more,

 

[daTeacha]

Not being a pilot, I'll risk sounding ignorant, but is it not true that a tethered plane, if properly balanced and trimmed, can lift off the ground and act as if flying given a strong and steady enough headwind? Kind of like a very expensive kite?

And then I have to wonder what the original poster means by "land" -- properly set once again upon mother earth in a normal orientation, or just end up a pile bent and twisted airplane parts lying on the ground? All you guys that say a plane will always land eventually mean the latter, although I think the OP meant the former.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Not being a pilot, I'll risk sounding ignorant, but is it not true that a tethered plane, if properly balanced and trimmed, can lift off the ground and act as if flying given a strong and steady enough headwind? Kind of like a very expensive kite?

Thats sorta what Iwas wondering. Can natural wing lift be trimmed fully out such that headwind + propwind over the wings produces little or no lift?
larry

 

[laurencen]

Hi Rich, a tethered aircraft will lift of if enough wind is present, gliders are winched into the air or towed, they could act like a kite if left tethered, as for land no one wants a landing resulting in twisted metal, as long as the aircraft has airspeed faster than the headwind it can land on the runway, if not it will land backwards and this I assume would be tricky due to the fact once you touch down what can you do, if the airspeed is less than the wind it would be close to impossible to do other more than hit the brakes and hope to sit there, With a 100mph wind you dare not pull the controls back and to taxi would be a feat

 

[daTeacha]

Let's change the runway into a large steel deck attached to a large ship moving in strangely smooth seas during a strong wind. You're the pilot, you're in the middle of the Pacific, returning from a long distance flight to find that conditions have changed drastically while you were gone. You're low on fuel in a multi-million dollar aircraft that has a take-off speed very near that of the prevailing wind speed at the surface. How do you proceed?

 

[laurencen]

Rich, as long as airflow will keep the aircraft up, assume the wind was the same as aircraft needs to stay aloft then it would be close to a vertical landing, once touchdown occured assuming the brakes could hold it you are done, safe landing as the wind speed remained constant during the touchdown there will be no forward or reverse motion in respect to the ship and aircraft

 

[turnkey4099]

Depends on definition of "land".

Put the wheels on the runway? Yes.

Put the wheels on the runway and come to a stop? No, not without a crash.

Harry K

 

[Egon]

Ahh -- it all depends on relative airspeed!

Now are we not on a tractor forum but are we talking about tractors that place aircraft in their designated positions.

 

[ray66v]

Not only could I land it, it would be the slowest touch down and landing roll in history for a 150. landing into a strong head wind is very easy.
I will even go one step further you could hover a 150 with that kind of wind and even fly backwards if you wanted.

 

[RonMar]

You could touch the wheels, but land? NO. The stall speed of the wing drastically lowers in ground effect, so the wing will still be flying(or wanting to). It would probably also be the slowest final approach in history for a C-150