Will my tractor be around in 30 years??

[sneaky_pete]

I love my Indian motorcycles, for many of the reasons stated above - simple, easy to work on, always start and run, and (these days) easy to get parts for, even though they have not been made for 52 years now (my bikes are older than that). But, as fun as they are and as much as I enjoy them, none of them would be my first choice for a long road trip. For that, I would much prefer to have disc brakes, electric start, 12-volt lights that you can actually see with, more power to haul stuff, better gas mileage, no chain to lube, etc., etc., etc.

Same with tractors - I appreciate old machinery that has stood the test of time, but I'm not going to penalize myself by doing without when modern machines are available with hydrostatic transmissions, 4WD, electric controls, and excellent diesel engines. I use my tractors to save me time and effort. If I wear them out, then they have served their purpose. If I can still rebuild them in 30 years time, then maybe they will bring me more pleasure then - but if not, I will already have got my money's worth out of them and had the use of the modern conveniences meanwhile.

Pete

 

[GerardC]

<font color="blue"> I'm confident that parts will be around for most modern tractors when the time comes but if they aren't then my suggestion would be to trade the bugger in, cut your loss and go from there. </font>

That's it in a nutshell.

 

[KiotiJohn]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( For Kioti, Branson and the multitude of Chinese tractors being sold under a variety of names...well, my guess is they'll be the tractors parked in a field with weeds growing through them. Of course, this depends if those brands increase in popularity. Kioti may...but I doubt the Chinese brands will...personally, I consider them throw away tractors. )</font>
JD owners were saying similar things about Kubota in the 70s when they first came here. Kubota sure put a hurting on JD and everyone else.
The Chinese will get better and better at tractor building. Some of the current models may be throw aways, but they're already getting better at making them, and many share the same parts, so there probably won't be a big issue of parts in the future.

TNCRUZIN: I don't think Roy was talking about Japanese tractors that have a long history like Iseki. He was referring to the Chinese models as throw aways. John

 

[slapshot]

It seems that the older tractors have held up so long because for the most part they were over engineered. I would suspect that many of the newer models have been "value engineered" or designed using "conservation engineering". The type of thing where if they shave off or reduce the amount of material needed they save $X amount per tractor or X many more tractors per ton of steel. 30-50 years ago that stuff was never an issue or at least not as big an issue.

-dave

 

[ocaj11]

It is my opinion that fiberglass and plastic should be used on a very limited basis with Ag/Utility tractors. Exposed plastic fuel tanks on the underside of a tractor is a bad idea as I have found out. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Maybe someone should retrofit a used army tank with a front end loader and 3 point hitch and I might not tear it up as much. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Good discussion for sure.

 

[RoyJackson]

"It seems that the older tractors have held up so long because for the most part they were over engineered."

That's a good point!

Engineers and designers tend to err on the side of caution and give a greater margin of safety. That's one reason older castings and forgings are heavier then those designed more recently (for the same applications).
Also, the advent of Computer Aided Design allows more theoretical testing of the model...beefing up just the weaker points of a design. That's "value-engineering"....

My 790 is an old school design stemming back to at least the 1980's, if not before. The castings are robust...one reason I chose the 790 over the TC 30. Not that the 790 is a better tractor then the TC 30 since appearances can be deceiving as we all know.

But I do believe the robustness of the design in addition to the simplicity of the 790 will lend it a longer working life then many newer designs.

Another thing I'm leaning toward the more established brands is I'm pretty sure there will be a backlash against "free-trade" sooner or later. in my opinion, sooner is better then later. I'm not going to get on a soapbox here, but as more folks lose good paying jobs, the government will feel the heat...as they already are in many locations both in the USA and abroad.

 

[jim_wilson]

I think this question is a hard one to answer. As other posters have mentioned older equipment tended to be built with heavier castings and heavier metal and less or no plastic. With modern computer aided design engineers can design a part to be just strong enough with no wasted materials. Frankly looking at modern tractors I don't see much evidence of over-engineering. There is some use of plastic and fiberglass but the places I have seen it used are on things like dashboards, grab handles, fuel tanks, fenders, etc. where plastic has an advantage over metal in many cases. As far as the "over engineered" vs. "overbuilt" comparison I can attest that heavier doesn't always mean better. Think back to American cars of the 70's and 80's - body on frame designs - heavy steel and big castings etc. My first car was a 75 Chevy and was approaching the end of it's life around 100,000 miles. I have had Honda cars for going on 16 years now and at first glance they are light, sometimes almost flimsy, and could be seen as over-engineered. But the darn things just keep going and going. I have two Hondas in my driveway that both have over 165,000 miles on them and that has been with minimal maintenance. I am sure when modern tractors start to get to the point where parts are no longer available from the factory the technology will have gotten to the point where local vendors will be able to reproduce parts relatively cheaply. There is a trickle down effect with manufacturing technology - in the 80's only places like Pratt & Whitney had CAD/CAM for making machine parts for example - now you can put software on a personal computer and hook it up to plasma table or a mill you bought off of Ebay and make parts out in your garage. The technology diffuses thru society to the point where it is accessible to the common man.

 

[hobbyfarm]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( It seems that the older tractors have held up so long because for the most part they were over engineered. I would suspect that many of the newer models have been "value engineered" or designed using "conservation engineering". )</font>

This is the very thing that makes the equipment disposable. Just let the bean counters run the R&D and it will go down hill from the word go! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif I beleive that the BCs should be in "observation" mode and not be able to make the decisions that ruin product.
Just my $.02 /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
phil

 

[Darren]

Based on automotive technology and parts problems, I'd say it will be awhile before tractors get in the same fix. A friend of mine just had the engine module on a high production older car die. New the part was $600. They were able to find a rebuilder and get the work done for about $300 with shipping.

Diesel tractors with mechanical injection systems will probably always be repairable. The real issue is if the EPA eventually requires off-road equipment like tractors to comply with emissions standards. The requirements for heavy trucks are a case in point. The EPA has required stricter requirements which will eventually lead to catalytic convertors for some engines. Many of the new models already have EGR systems and there are problems. FWIW, a convertor on a large diesel will probably cost about $5,000. AND the wrong fuel dumped in the tank by an ignorant pump jockey can ruin it.

The other problem is that manufacturers have gone to electronic fuel systems to meet emissions requirements. If those are extended to tractors, I'd bet that a 30 year old diesel tractor with an electronic fuel system might be tough to maintain while a 60 year old diesel tractor with a mechanical injection system would still have good parts availability as long as it was built by a major manufacturer.

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I own one of those "throw away tractors" referenced in a previous post....a 1980 model Iseki TL-1900. \Just my thoughts on the subject....maybe because I own one of these older "throw away tractors" I'm being hopefully optomistic! )</font>

I'm not sure your 'Japaneese' tractor falls in to the 'chineese' throw away tractor category /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

As an owner of a jap tractor.. ( yanmar).. I've found that in most cases.. parts at the 25 year mark were available, depending onmodel.

Production amount I think will be the defining issue on parts.. A tractor that had nearly a million units produced.. should maintain good parts inventories. As someone mentione dthe old fords. from 1939-1952 the major engine components were interchangeable.. that's why you can still go down to a NH dealer and order an engine kit.. or get online and find them for 500$ .. etc.

Soundguy