Winch calculations

[Snowstorm]

Snowstorm--(appropriate name this winter !!)--That is quite a fabrication, but it is large enough to be a better skidder than a buncher. I anticipate 90% of my movement to the log to be backing off a road, so the 3ph format is preferred. In light of the comments about line tension, disengaging the winch, and safety, the warnings to go hydraulic have probably hit home. Further research has revealed that my 800 pump operates @ 2000 psi and 4-4.8 gpm. The 1700 pump is 2100 psi and 5.3 gpm. Would I be correct to assume that input psi and gpm is fungible--ie 4.5 gpm @2000 psi is the same whether it comes from a 5 HP engine or a 100 HP engine?

On a related matter, 30 or more years ago, you could purchase a clutch for a power plant. I seem to recall them being used on sawmills using a LeRoi power plant. I haven't found one for sale in recent years. The unit I have in mind is a two-piece clutch (disk + pressure plate), more or less 4" in diameter, and activated by a hand lever, one end of which is bolted to a base. Pull the lever toward the engine, and clutch engages, pull toward the powered implement, and it disengages. Am I having fuzzy memories, or do I recall correctly ?? Such a unit would allow use of the PTO, but also feature actual clutch function.

I use it just like I would a skidder. I normally have 4 or 5 sliders on the cable and use chain chokers - run the cable from tree to tree to tree and do one winching operation, lock the drum with the butts off the ground and head for the yard. If I get to a spot that I can't continue due to ice or mud, I drop the load, pull ahead to a good spot, winch it up and take off again. You just have to consider the need to turn the rig around when planning your skid trails.

 

[jbooth]

If you are making a winch for skidding logs and option would be to consider mounting it on a small trailer in conjunction with an arch. This will lift the butts of the logs up off the ground when skidding without making the tractor tippy. You could also put a transmission in between the PTO and winch to reduce your line speed.
Kevin

Nice pictures. That is quite a set up and made use of some existing materials. Years ago I watched some "small" pulp wood loggers and was amazed at their tooling for stacking on their trucks. They had used a car/truck rear end mounted midway on their truck frame/log bed. Used an old rim for the cable spool. The winch/rear end was powered off the truck PTO. To engage the winch, the brake was applied (via lever) on the opposite cable spool end. A swiveling pole was mounted to allow the wood to elevate and go on the truck. As soon as the wood was loaded the offside brake was released and the thing would go into free spool for the next cycle. This outfit was completely homemade and seemed very efficient. I don't know what the line speed was, but it was fast. sometimes the wood was airborne coming to the truck. Winch operator had it easy, but the hookers were running all the time. I was afraid to get close as the wood was being moved at a high rate of speed so i was only able to see the basics and not many details. To my knowledge they had no way of holding the load but I suppose a brake on the cable drum side would do that.

 

[plumbstraight]

Here is one I built for my larger tractor that is hyd and the smaller one is electric. Just for ideas sake.

 

[easygo]

Plumbstraight,
What king of line speed do you get with those winches in ft/min. I'm curious what people find a usable not too slow not too fast speed.

 

[plumbstraight]

These winches are slow and not for production. I have a hyd one that is in the loader frame with a smaller motor in it and it works very well. I just had this one setting around and figured I would make something for the rear. It also has a boom that replaces the toplink. It extends about 3ft past the frame and can be fitted with tongs or a pulley. When down the tongs can reach the ground and when lifted the get about 5ft up.

I used to build winchs for market. They were pto and I had gears put in that were 9/1 instead of the 36/1. Was getting 100=200fpm with the 540 and 1000 pto speed. Built a couple of 12000lb wiches with the 18/1. They were still fast enough in high gear to do a decent job. With a 33hp yanmar it would part a new 3/8 choker with ease. Wish I would have kept one of them.

I put this on when I am not using the tractor for other purposes, keeps the arms stablilzed. Built the one for the wifes tractor so she could use it for pulling her trailer around and getting herself out of a problem as I am gone a lot.

In another forum way back I put an arch in. I really like the one featured here. It is nicely built.

The one I built in the 80's ws for a 25hp kubota and doubled as a trailer. It was built much heavier than this one, but is good for ideas.

 

[Chilly807]

In another forum way back I put an arch in. I really like the one featured here. It is nicely built.

The one I built in the 80's ws for a 25hp kubota and doubled as a trailer. It was built much heavier than this one, but is good for ideas.

I think I remember seeing that arch before, I really liked the fact it was convertible to a trailer. I think come spring I may have to get the welder out and see about converting mine to something similar. Mine is strong enough, but single purpose.

Nice job !

Sean

 

[lostcause]

I'm in the process of building a similar winch that will have a former tow-truck winch as the power. It has 40:1 gear reduction and I calculated that if I use a 20 tooth drive sprocket and a 10 driven socket that will give me about 35ft/min on the bare drum and about 65 ft/min on a nearly full drum recovery speed depending if I run the PTO at 540 rpm. However. I do not intend to run the PTO at full speed but more like in the max torque range that is about 1600-1700 engine rpm. I don't know exactly what PTO speed that will give me but I would guess around 300 rpm.

here's one i built for a friend last year. he supplied me with an old mobile home tongue, a holmes wrecker body winch, and a few other odds and ends. i found it extremely slow when seeing it on his tractor, but it would pull pretty much everything he hooked to it. i think his tractor has a pretty low flow, so on something with more zip, it might be better. either way, it pulls stuff that you can't get by hand, and it was a few thousand cheaper than buying one. just last weekend i hauled home a new used tractor for him, and it came with a pto skidding winch. he'll probably be selling this one now. must be a maine thing to turn a wrecker into a skidder

 

[easygo]

Lostcause,
That is a very well done fabrication job. Lots of thanks for posting the pictures. I'm sure your friend will sell that winch in the blink of an eye. As you know those things are highly prized and priced accordingly in Maine. What kind of tractor was that winch used on?

My winch looks just like that except that it is the previous - PTO driven - version as opposed to the hydraulic that you worked with.
Do you happen to know the RPM of that hydraulic motor? I'm asking because I wonder what is a safe input speed on those winches. Please bare with me I know I do have a lot of questions.

Since my previous post I found out that the winch I have is in fact 60:1 gearing so I will have to run 3:1 sprocket ratio from the PTO. My max possible input will be 1620 rpm but I will use it around 1000 input rpm. Any suggestions would be welcomed.

 

[plumbstraight]

At 60 t0 1 those teeth are going to be fine and very straight cut. Wear might be a consideration on turning it at high speeds. One thing for sure, if you ever pull it up tight or not be able to put the logs on the ground after finishing your pull to the deck, it will not let you disengage the freespool. Good luck with your system.

yes the atv arch was in before. I am rdbrumfield, just lost my password, so I use this name, is also my name for mail in yahoo.