Winch Firewood Processor

[Scook222]

It’s a very nice design. I like the auto retract on the splitter cylinder. I have never seen a processor before and it looks like it will work great. I only have 2 questions/ concerns is how the adjustment for the up and down on the wedge will hold up over time, I wasn’t able to get a good look at the way it was mounted. I have broke the welds on my champion splitter bottom plate splitter 32”+ rounds of knotty oak. The second is how well will the handle to run the bar cut the wood and if it got in a bind and pinched or tried to kick back, would the red handle be hard to control or smack you/ snatch an arm out of socket with no dampening system that I could see. I’m not trying to put down the design by any means because it’s very nice, just trying to understand alittle better.

 

[Stomper]

Great work. I like it very much. The strength of the I beam with the web cut out is also a concern of mine. The I beam gets most of it's strength with the depth of the web. It could be strengthened again if some plates were installed on each side of the cut out area and the wedge could still move up and down. the way it is, I could see that part of the beam eventuallybending down as only the flanges are taking the load.

 

[polemidis]

Looks good, one quick question, why not one more cylinder and circuit for the saw?

For feed? This is what I have on my other processor that I am building for myself. But it has challenges. In theory I made it work, but I have not tested in real life yet, and I didn't want to give that to the guy that will buy this prototype.
The challenges are that depending the wood (species,dryness/thickness etc), you need different speed and different pressure on the feed cylinder. In order to make it work 99% of the time it should be slower than the ideal speed, which is not efficient. On my personal processor I have a valve that remote senses the pressure on the saw, and at the trigger point it reliefs the feed cylinder (so it stops pushing against the wood) until the saw pressure falls (meaning that It has not goig to stall). But hysteresis may complicate things. Our mind can sense and react faster than a hydraulic circuit.
There is another option with a propotional valve with position feedback but thats too expensive

This solenoid valve made things complicated and I would like to avoid it as it wastes about 400psi. I went cheap with a cartridge solenoid valve (sun's hydraulic DMDA XNN) which is rated for 12gpm max, and my saw motor needs 9.75gpm so it is close to its operational limits. It looks like I have to do some more research. I have a feeling that I can put a solenoid to a regular stack valve. If thats the case I will upgrade the system later on

 

[polemidis]

IMG 1616 - YouTube
IMG 1619 - YouTube

At last!!!!!! It cut and splits.
I will post some of the specs later, I am so excited now, I am gonna play with it a little more! hahahaha

 

[Scook222]

Wow it really neat to seat it working. It turned out really nice.

 

[polemidis]

It’s a very nice design. I like the auto retract on the splitter cylinder. I have never seen a processor before and it looks like it will work great. I only have 2 questions/ concerns is how the adjustment for the up and down on the wedge will hold up over time, I wasn’t able to get a good look at the way it was mounted. I have broke the welds on my champion splitter bottom plate splitter 32”+ rounds of knotty oak. The second is how well will the handle to run the bar cut the wood and if it got in a bind and pinched or tried to kick back, would the red handle be hard to control or smack you/ snatch an arm out of socket with no dampening system that I could see. I’m not trying to put down the design by any means because it’s very nice, just trying to understand alittle better.

Scook my apologies man, I did not noticed your questions before, I just saw them.
a) The adjustment does not really take any loads. I will take some pictures tomorrow, but its nothing special. Here is one of the CAD, similar to the actual thing (its not the same because last moment the owner of the splitter wanted more travel so I change it a bit on the fly. So lever is a bit different with a 1/2" bolt welded on it to extend it.).

If you are asking about the splitter wedge in general here is another picture of the CAD. The load goes to the triangle behind the main splitting wedge, and one side of it goes through the top plate of the W-Beam, and is welded to the bottom plate of the W-Beam. The reason for that is because I did not have strong welder to weld 1/2" plate, so taking it through the plate gave me the strength i want. Next time I will just weld it on the top plate and I will just box the end of the W-Beam.


b) I got a few stalls because on the design I have not put any clamp. Thats was a important oversight from me. I didn't experience any load back in my hand. After I fabricated the clamp, I also got some back and forth movements from the saw, because I moved the bar way to fast on the wood. Again no hard kickbacks on the handle. And lastly, the worst thing that happen today, was that a 20ft long stick slided sideways midwaay throught during the cut, twisting the bar, and the tip hit a metal piece to a hard stop. That was scary, the chain went off the rail, and the 3/16" metal took a big bent. I dont recall any tense to my hand, but I would not recall it anyway, it was a big scary sound. More pictures on that tomorrow.
The handle is made out of 1.25" sch 80 pipe, so its very heavy, maybe this inertia damped any backward forces.

I will post more details later guys.
I will add a "what I would do different" list!!

 

[davedj1]

Looks awesome, thanks for sharing and I'm looking forward to the list!

 

[polemidis]

Looks awesome, thanks for sharing and I'm looking forward to the list!

Here is the current CAD in FreeCAD format. There is a list with "Issues" on the left where i make notes. (EDIT, the CAD is still in progress, it gets updated. Some snapshops are a mess. let me know if you are having an issue)
Here is a copy of the bill of materials with links on most of the products

So here is what have so far on the the hydraulics:
2 circuits, 1 for the splitter, one for the saw/winch/6way height adjustment/

1st one:
16hp gas engine (duromax)
2-stage hydraulic pump,
full auto push and retract log splitter valve
5"x 24" cylinder

2nd circuit
18-hp gas engine duromax
0.58ci gear pump
Variable Flow Control valve. It is adjusted so about 9.75gpm go to the Controlled Flow, the remaining go to Excess flow
Excess Flow
Right now goes back to tank, in the future I will add a motor valve and the conveyor motor to that part
Controlled Flow
2spool valve.
1st spool runs the 6-way height adjustment cylinder
2nd spool, on the push action it runs the winching cable, on the pull it releases the load and makes the winch motor free to unwind. I have to add a detent on the pull so the clutch port stays open to the tank when you unwind it
Power Beyond
Solenoid Valve for Sun Hydraulics (DMDA)
Saw motor 0.45ci with 14T sprocket and 0.404 harvester chain on a 27" bar
Here I also have a small loop at the motor ports with a check valve so it will not come to a hard stop when I release the solenoid switch.
I also have a TEE with a check valve and a needle valve that leeks little oil to the chainbar for oiling

The return hoses are 1" that go to a 70gpm filter before the return to a 25gallon tank
The pressure hoses are either 3/4" or 1/2" and a few 3/8" (mostly JIC, makes the life sooooo much easier)
The vacuum hoses are 1.25"
I have 2 pressure gauges on the inlets of each of the 2 circuits(3000psi), and 1 at the oil filter(30psi).

Now on what I would do different....
1st) I would downsize the splitter cylinder, from 5" dia to 4.5" diameter. Reasoning is for speed, and because I noticed that even on the worst round that I split on the 6-way, the pressure did not exceed 1000psi ever on the low speed/high pressure. Actually most of the splits are happening on the high speed/low pressure.

2nd)I would go with a higher motor on the saw circuit. Most likely the 22hp V-twin from harbor freight. Right now, what is rated 18-hp, looks like is chinese hp, maybe pony power... The gas engine bogs down when the saw motor develops 1300psi. I definitely need more power to take advantage of that motor.

3rd) I would not use the sun hydraulics solenoid valve but I would go with a regular monoblock motor type spool valve with a solenoid mounted. That will eliminate the need for that extra loop between the motor ports, but more important it will reduce the heat and the psi that I drop on the DMDA valve. The DMDA with the spool is rated for 12gpm, and I am pushing 9.75. I have 200psi drop here which is psi stolen from the saw motor. I would go with a valve rated for about 20gpm, like the rest valves I used.

4rd) I would add the above valve 1st in the circuit, and run the winch and 6-way through the PB to avoid losing 50psi. The saw is where I need all the power not the winch or 6-way


Now on the mechanical side of the build, there are a lot minor things here and there, I am going to add them to the "Issues" and later to the CAD (on my team's repository link I posted earlier)
Nothing major though.
But the most important thing that I totally regret is NOT HAVING A COMPLETE CAD DESIGN BEFORE I STARTED FABRICATION. Yes thats my biggest biggest mistake. It took me 6 months to finish this, instead of 1 week. Its soo important. I spent most of the time removing things that are in the way, winching, welding by laying under, cuting and rewelding and recuting.... And I had 90% of the design done....

Anyway.. I am planning to explain the whole machine in a few video series. Until then ask anything guys. And criticize where you think I am wrong

 

[davedj1]

thanks.

 

[polemidis]

The processor is done.
A batch of raw videos are here

This is the result after 1h 20mins. It would produce a lot more with full wider length logs. The operator has a skidder thats why he wanted the winch type instead of the live deck.

The splitter looks slow because it has a 5in diameter cylinder. Its is interesting that most of the time it splits on the hi speed (I have a hi/lo pump). On the other processor that I am building for myself I will go with a 4.5" dia cylinder.