Winch for pulling downed trees

[spindlewood]

I have a Kioti DK40SE Cab and want to drag downed trees (2 foot maximum diameter) to the logging road. I don't want to spend the money on a farmi and really don't want a 3 pt hitch attachment solution as I will have a Wallenstein chipper installed on the 3 pt and plan on chipping on site.

I was hoping to bolt an electric winch to the front grill bolts and skid the trees. I've read other posts warning of the battery drain and stress on smaller alternators. I can't find specs on the DK40SE alternator.

I was hoping to get the Mile Marker SEC 12000. If the weight of the pull is in the 3-4k range, the amp draw is less than 200 amps.

I'm hoping with a workflow that had a 15-30 minute break after each pull (cutting up the tree and chipping the limbs) would allow the tractor's alternator / battery to keep up - and without destroying it. Am I barking up the wrong tree?

Anyone using a winch for tree skidding and what size winch are you using?

 

[k0ua]

Well the good news; here is the alternator output curve diagram. Note that the more RPM of course more output, but also notice the two curves; cold vs hot alternator. Whether it will keep up or not, I don't for sure know.

 

[bcp]

I don't know your terrain, but on mine, I used a long cable (100, 50, 50) and a snatch block to get logs to the road. Never felt the need for a winch.

Bruce

 

[k0ua]

I don't know your terrain, but on mine, I used a long cable (100, 50, 50) and a snatch block to get logs to the road. Never felt the need for a winch.

Bruce

That certainly sounds like a simpler and less costly solution if it would work out for him.

 

[spindlewood]

I don't know your terrain, but on mine, I used a long cable (100, 50, 50) and a snatch block to get logs to the road. Never felt the need for a winch.

Bruce

I'm curious how you use the snatch block to get your logs to the road. Are you using a tree next to the road with a strap and snatch block attached so you can pull the log up perpendicular to the road and direction the tractor is moving? What kind of cable do you use?

My terrain is varied. 27 acres of some flat areas and many slopes. A winch seems versatile and likely to solve logistical problems. I've presumed pulling alone will not always work.

 

[Egon]

You may want to consider running an extra deep cycle battery.

 

[bcp]

Snatch block on a tree or stump, preferably across the road from the log. Cable (3/8) from log to block to tow vehicle, which drives along the road. On a long pull, the long cable is first, then the short nearest the log. Back up and remove the short cable when the joint reaches the block. If the block is on a strong tree, putting it higher helps the dragging. I had the idea to bevel or point the end of the log if snagging was a problem but never had to. I pulled out logs, not trees, so it may be different if you pull out, then trim.

I have 5 acres, all fir except the house site. About 100 ft elevation change top to bottom, most of it in 2/3 of the length. Lots of boulders on the steeper parts.

Bruce

 

[spindlewood]

Snatch block on a tree or stump, preferably across the road from the log. Cable (3/8) from log to block to tow vehicle, which drives along the road. On a long pull, the long cable is first, then the short nearest the log. Back up and remove the short cable when the joint reaches the block. If the block is on a strong tree, putting it higher helps the dragging. I had the idea to bevel or point the end of the log if snagging was a problem but never had to. I pulled out logs, not trees, so it may be different if you pull out, then trim.

I have 5 acres, all fir except the house site. About 100 ft elevation change top to bottom, most of it in 2/3 of the length. Lots of boulders on the steeper parts.

Bruce

I guess my "good idea" might just be too much thought. Guess I'll just try it like you have described. I need to find someone with compression equipment for the end loops - winch cable extensions are expensive.

 

[Coyote machine]

I wouldn't tie a winch into the tractors electrical system, you're only asking for trouble.
Pull from your drawbar at the rear of the tractor and use a clamshell snatch block like these: Light Duty Cast Sided Snatch Blocks. I use the exact one with my Igland PTO winch and get 8,000#s of pull through the block. You can buy a 'cone' to keep the log ends from digging in when skidding them.
Logging suppliers can provide you with premade winch cable with compressed ends already to go.

 

[crazyal]

The last winch I used was slower than death. Fine for pulling a truck 20' out of the mud but I'm not sure if I would want to try and pull logs with one. If you do i would suggest making something for the 3pt hitch that had the winch, a large deep cycle battery, and a place to connect a chain to skid the log.

 

[CalG]

I guess my "good idea" might just be too much thought. Guess I'll just try it like you have described. I need to find someone with compression equipment for the end loops - winch cable extensions are expensive.

this

Really quick wire rope eye-splice.

the tail need not be so long......

 

[schmism]

if your looking at mile marker you might as well consider a hydraulic unit. If you have rear remotes its an easy hookup.

 

[Ken45101]

Personally I am very leery of using a cable attached to a moving tractor. A tractor has a lot of power. If it breaks the cable, the broken cable may fly right at the tractor (and operator) and can be lethal.

I mounted a Harbor Freight 12,000# winch on an old box blade. I put a deep cycle battery there also, with a charging line to the tractor battery (30a breakers in the line). I have their wireless remote so I can stand clear. It works reasonably well. I haven't had any battery issues even though the tractor just runs at idle.

But, a 2ft diameter log? That may be more than you can handle. I've tried something like that. The winch drug the tractor, not the log. Even with the box blade dug in. Well, I know I can use the winch to recover the tractor

 

[mark02tj]

Personally I am very leery of using a cable attached to a moving tractor. A tractor has a lot of power. If it breaks the cable, the broken cable may fly right at the tractor (and operator) and can be lethal.

You could also have a cable break while using a winch. The results would be just as lethal.

I like the idea of the snatch block to pull the logs out. That would be a lot simpler, cheaper and easier to use as you wouldn't have to unspool the winch for each pull nor would you have to worry about how cleanly the line was spooling during the pull. I know that when I was Jeeping that winch cables would get pretty messy on the spool during a long pull.

What about using a synthetic line and a snatch block? The synthetic is stronger, lighter and safer than wire cable. The downside is that you'd have to be careful what it was rubbing on as the synthetic line is more susceptible to abrasion damage. But, if the line does break, it's possible to "weave" the broken ends back together.

Synthetics include brands like Amsteel Blue but (according to a sailing guy on the Jeepforum website) you can get comparable synthetic lines from sailing supply shops. If I remember correctly, you want lines rated for a "main jib" without any elastic properties in them. You can get shorter lengths at a discount as they are often the leftovers from the end of the spool. Check some of the sailing supply websites to see what you can find.

 

[Ken45101]

You could also have a cable break while using a winch. The results would be just as lethal.

No.

When pulling with the tractor, you have to be in the seat and therefore in line with the cable if it snaps.

When using the winch, you can stand off to the side, or behind the tractor, therefore having a shield if the cable snaps. When using the wireless remote, I can stand far away and totally out of range of a cable snapping. BIG difference in safety factor.

Note that commercial logging winches, like Farmi, provide shields for the operator. There is a reason for that.

 

[Deerherd]

This is a very timely thread for me. I need to move lots of trees and was hoping to come up with a less expensive alternative to a Uniforest/Farmi winch. But I think for ease and safety I'm going to bite the bullet and spend the money.

 

[motownbrowne]

Deerherd, as someone who bought a used farmi after hunting for one for about a year, I can tell you that your area of the country has more used ones than anywhere else. The price is typically a little higher out there, people must know what they are, but there's bound to be a deal somewhere.

I paid 900 for mine. Would have liked one size larger, but for the price I wasn't about to complain. Mine was listed as a "tractor winch". Be sure to search for that term, and logging winch, skidding winch, etc.

Good luck. They're worth the $.

 

[s219]

I do a lot of log skidding. If pulling behind the tractor, it's best to rig some sort of skid plate on the 3-pt hitch so that you can elevate the butt of the log off the ground (even a little helps immensely, otherwise the log wants to hang up and will get dirty). I use a simple A-frame skid plate with a chain hook, and then a choker chain around the log. You may also want a second short chain to your drawbar if stability (wheelies) becomes an issue, that way the 3-pt lifts and the draw bar pulls down low. Some people skip the 3-pt lift and strap an old car hood or door to the front butt of the log to act as a ski. I grew up around a lot of old-timers that did this. It works, but I prefer the 3-pt lift myself.

In situations where you can't get in with a tractor, I use a logging rope (5/8" or 3/4") with a pulley block mounted high up in a suitable beefy tree. This forms a high "fairlead" that will simultaneously pull the log towards you and elevate the butt off the ground so that it doesn't drag. Sort of a poor man's yarder. It works exceptionally well. Make sure to use a choker chain or other chain to attach the log and keep your rope up off the ground from dragging. Let the chain take the abuse at the end of the line.

The main goal is to avoid dragging the log on the ground flat. That is asking for trouble, plus it can make the logs very dirty and trash chainsaw chains later on. This is an issue to consider if bucking up the log into rounds with many cuts, or milling the log for lumber with long cuts down the length of the log. In both situations, it gets old real fast when the chain dulls over and over on you, especially when milling where sharpening a chain is not trivial.

Be careful operating the tractor for pulling/skidding with a Wallenstein on the back. I found it was easier to unmount the Wallenstein, do all my rigging/skidding work, and then remount later on. It's a big heavy unwieldy implement to have hanging off the 3-pt when doing other things.

Good luck!

 

[MAN IN BLACK]

I used to skid with grade 70 chains...I had at least 100' all tied together.
I bought a Wallenstein FX65 skidding winch last spring.
Best investment I ever made...170' of cable on the drum and a couple of snatch blocks.
Makes the job much more pleasant and less hard on the body joints from pulling the chains around.
The logs are much cleaner for me to cut than when I was skidding with chains only.Just one end of the log is dragging in the dirt.For me...it's the best piece of equipment for working in the woods I have...after the 4608 of course.
Black :thumbsup:

 

[Deerherd]

Deerherd, as someone who bought a used farmi after hunting for one for about a year, I can tell you that your area of the country has more used ones than anywhere else. The price is typically a little higher out there, people must know what they are, but there's bound to be a deal somewhere.

I paid 900 for mine. Would have liked one size larger, but for the price I wasn't about to complain. Mine was listed as a "tractor winch". Be sure to search for that term, and logging winch, skidding winch, etc.

Good luck. They're worth the $.

I have been looking for used forever and the only ones large enough to work on my tractor were so close to new in price, it wasn't worth it to me. I'm buying new. I'm starting a new thread not to hijack this one so if anybody has any input it would be appreciated.