Winch Questions

Famah · Jul 18, 2010

Greetings Learned Forum:

Not wanting to hijack iplumb's thread regarding log tongs (anymore than it already has

), and since it seemed ready to veer into winches, I thought I would start a new thread on the topic.

If I had the money, there is no question that I would buy a dedicated logging winch. The Farmi units look particularly nice. But I don't have the money, and perhaps equally important, after a few years, I won't be skidding trees. I have about 4 more acres to go, and that is only to remove the little and medium sized stuff so the big trees can spread out and breathe. So a serious logging winch seems like terrible overkill for my needs.

My next purchase will most likely be a 3 pt. quick hitch (3-Point Quick Hitch - 27-1/2" Clearance) with a choke chain. Using an abundance of caution, and raising the log just so it does not drag, this should work well enough for skidding.

I have never used a winch, but from what I have read on the Forum, it seems like it would save a tremendous amount of labor. In the past, I have always needed to back right up to the downed tree. Usually, this takes more time and effort than taking it down and skidding it to my woodpile.

So from what I have read, the type of winches I should be considering can be either electric or hydraulic. I have read of the strain that electric winches can place on the electrical system of a ordinary, unmodified tractor. So that leads me to consider hydraulic.

What are the pros and cons of electric and hydraulic winches? Is it even feasible to consider using a winch in conjunction with the 3 pt hitch? Where and how would you mount it? Should I just wait until Aunt Matilda dies and I inherit enough for a Farmi???

As always, your thoughts, opinions and advice iare greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Nick

Gordon Gould · Jul 18, 2010

You may have a third choice. I have a friend that has a winch that he puts on his chain saw ( after removing the bar and chain ). He plans on using it during moose season and says it is good for well over 1000 lbs. He has straps to go around trees on the fixed end so he can work his way to the truck.
I'm just throwing this out - I don't know a thing about them but a chain saw power unit may be more practical than electric or hydraulic for you.

Baby Grand · Jul 18, 2010

I think ... and others who know can correct me ... that the limitation on electric is going to be how many amps you can supply continuously for however many minutes you need to get what you need to do done and how long the winch motor can take that load before it overheats?

-Jim

SPYDERLK · Jul 18, 2010

Baby Grand said:
I think ... and others who know can correct me ... that the limitation on electric is going to be how many amps you can supply continuously for however many minutes you need to get what you need to do done and how long the winch motor can take that load before it overheats?

-Jim

Yeah. That and keeping the wires short or very large so you dont waste anytjing getting to the motor as amps rise all the way down to near stall. A series wound elec motor such as used will gain torque as it slows and so gives ample warning of its limit as pull varies. A hyd motor will run at pretty constant speed and then stall abruptly as system pressure rises to the relief point.
Altho I dont have a winch I have experience drawing hundreds of amps from a tractor battery using inverters up to 2kW. A running tractor with a good car battery and 45A alternator handles intermittent use fine. All it would take is a voltmeter to monitor battery charge condition as it recovers between pulls.
larry

hr3 · Jul 18, 2010

A guy I know has and electric 8000 lb. winch on a 3 point setup and a deep cycle battery mounted next to it.. He says he can get about 6 hr. pulling before it goes down.. cheep and easy I think,,:thumbsup:

SPYDERLK · Jul 18, 2010

hr3 said:
A guy I know has and electric 8000 lb. winch on a 3 point setup and a deep cycle battery mounted next to it.. He says he can get about 6 hr. pulling before it goes down.. cheep and easy I think,,:thumbsup:

Well, 6hrs pulling at even 100A would be 600AmpHrs. So Id guess he is charging it concurrently, or has a fork lift battery, or is only using it for about 20min during the 6hr period.
larry

Dead Horse · Jul 18, 2010

Before I bouht my farmi from Nedly, I made a skidding rig by welding chain hooks on a thick piece of L channel, welded to a steel rod the diameter of type I lower link pins, which I drilled out for lynch pins..

I used long pieces of chain to get the tree out of the woods and on to the logging road. either by attaching the chain to hooks on the FEL bucket or the hooks on the "skidder bar".

Once I had the logs on the road, it was easy to line them up and chain them up to the hooks on the skidder bar. raise the butts off the ground and off to the logging yard I would go.

Yes, a logging winch saves a TON of time over that approach, especially if the terraine is "challenging".

You could think about buying a used winch and then selling it when you are done. Purchased right, you will not lose money and may even make a few bucks. These winches are pure gold. The only thing that seems to wear on them are the bearings, which are pretty simple to replace and relatively easy to source.

Look around, you might get lucky and find one....... used ones for sale are rare as hen's teeth it seems.

Famah · Jul 18, 2010

An unbelievable thing happened a couple of hours ago. An old friend stopped by to say hello. He saw my new tractor and was very happy for me, telling me it was a very useful purchase. He has almost an identical one.

He went on to tell me that he has some attachments he hardly ever uses anymore, and that I was welcome to them anytime and for as long as I needed them. I had helped his son out of a couple of jambs when he was younger and pretty reckless behind the wheel. I would never accept money from Rick, and he has always been grateful.

So he goes on to say that he has a logging winch that I am welcome to. "It's that really rugged Italian one," he says. "Farmi?" I ask. "Yeah. That's it."

HOLY SMOKES! This never happens to me. I'm always doing the loaning and the favors. The timing is scary. So I guess I am good on the winch front. Still pinching myself, though. Must be a dream...

Nick

Gordon Gould · Jul 18, 2010

Whoa - Life is good

k0ua · Jul 18, 2010

Holy Cow Famah, does the good luck with the winch make up a little for the bad luck with the Poison Ivy? someone must be looking out for you.. Good luck with the winch man, stay safe:thumbsup:
James
K0UA

roger 4400 · Jul 19, 2010

Nice move Nick. Now I,ll have you spend some more money to save time ,effort and to be safer.If you can get a ** snatch block** (pulley) it would be real nice. A snatch block is used when you cannot be in line with the tree you want to pull, or if you want the tree to avoid an obstacle. It will deviate the tree safely, you only have to attach the snatch block to a tree that is in line with the tractor and have your winch pulling it. Have some search on the net you will find good infos on that pulley. Have a nice day. Do you know what model is your Farmi ? Roger
By the way Farmi is from Finland.....and it is red, you bought the wrong tractor

Famah · Jul 19, 2010

Hello KOua:

"does the good luck with the winch make up a little for the bad luck with the Poison Ivy?" I never even thought of that! I guess things balance out, one way or another. Nice thought.

Hi Roger:

Thank you for chiming in. Snatch blocks sound interesting. If I did a search on our Forum, would that come up with enough material to get me going? Do you have any other links?

As partial repayment for his generosity, I told my friend that I will be giving his old winch a nice new coat of paint. I haven't quite broken it to him that it will be bright pumpkin orange.

Finland, eh? Still sounds like something you would order in an Italian restaurant. "I'll have the Chicken Farmi." "And she'll have the Veal Caroni."

Nick

roger 4400 · Jul 19, 2010

Nick, the orange paint you will put on will always peel

(orange-peel ...wow it will be a long day:laughing

I,m not very good with computers. But go on you tube and write * snatch block logging* , you will be able to see a logger that pulls a tree that is deviated with a snatch block and he also have a *cone * that is very helpfull when you log especially with an atv ( it make the log to avoid the stumps or stones on the way....how I know...I have one). Maybe red paint would hold better on orange

. Have a nice day

CharlieR · Jul 19, 2010

I've got a chainsaw engine powered capstan winch as seen on the you-tube site mentioned.
It works real well and cost about $500.
I've also got the skidding cone (very much worth the cost - around $100, I think).
BUT to keep cost down, use the tractor as your winch and use one or more snatch-blocks tied to one or more trees with a strap to snake the tree trunk through the woods.
Run your rope through the snatch blocks so you can keep the tractor on safe ground.
The cone will help pull the tree trunk through the bushes just like a greased pig.

JDGreenGrass · Jul 19, 2010

Famah said:
An unbelievable thing happened a couple of hours ago. An old friend stopped by to say hello. He saw my new tractor and was very happy for me, telling me it was a very useful purchase. He has almost an identical one.

He went on to tell me that he has some attachments he hardly ever uses anymore, and that I was welcome to them anytime and for as long as I needed them. I had helped his son out of a couple of jambs when he was younger and pretty reckless behind the wheel. I would never accept money from Rick, and he has always been grateful.

So he goes on to say that he has a logging winch that I am welcome to. "It's that really rugged Italian one," he says. "Farmi?" I ask. "Yeah. That's it."

HOLY SMOKES! This never happens to me. I'm always doing the loaning and the favors. The timing is scary. So I guess I am good on the winch front. Still pinching myself, though. Must be a dream...

Nick

Oh man, THAT is a thread killer.!!:laughing:

Good for you.

Sounds like you did good and now the "good" is on you.

Dead Horse · Jul 19, 2010

Depending on the model Farmi, you may have as many as three sliders on the cable. By using a choker around a stout tree trunk, hooked into one of the sliders, mid way of the "pull", this set up works as well as a snatch block and requires no additional equipment. The angle cannot be too severe though as you don't want to put a kink in the cable.

I go to as much as 60 degrees off the pull line with no trouble. I use a Farmi 601 with a 5/8" cable. I have put up 20+ cord of wood per year for the last 3 years now. So I have a fair amount of experience using this winch.

There are several threads on this site covering safe operation of these logging winches. A lot of it is common sense, but you will be surprised what you can learn by reading through them.

Have a good time and be safe!