Winch: Hydraulic vs. PTO?

[MossRoad]

Why does it seem that one can find well performing hydraulic snowblowers, but hydraulic winches are always painfully slow? I mean, you could wrap a cable around a hydraulic snowblower auger shaft and probably move some timber, quite quickly!

I would like to have a SSQA mount hydraulic winch, with free spooling out and remote controlled operation (electric D05 Valve Block) for pulling pine logs out of the bush, as a one man operation.

I have yet to see anything that comes along used, fill this requirement.

I think a winch mounted on a tractor FEL arms are a good way to tweak the arms if the pull isn't exactly straight. Even with a blade dug into the ground, if the angle of the cable is off to the side, and the pull gets hung up, it's gonna want to pull the FEL arms sideways.

Another issue I'd see is that with a remote control on a solenoid on a hydraulic motor.

1. you'd want high engine RPMs to provide high power to the pump to provide high power to the motor.
2. you do not want to put high power to a hydraulic motor immediately. You want to ramp it up.
I know this from experience with my little PT425 and the hydraulic motors on the finish mower and brush cutter. If you try to start them from a dead stop at high engine RPMs, the shock load is very high. Damage will occur eventually.
3. you don't want to turn off hydraulic power to a spinning motor under load and have it stop immediately. Damage will occur.
You need a motor spool valve that allows it to spin down, or, you need to lower pump RPMs to almost idle.
4. if you have a motor spool valve, you may be able to hold a load from spooling back out with a check valve, but then you need a mechanical way to disconnect the cable spool from the drive to allow for free spooling out.

All kinds of things like that that make a hydraulic winch great for recovery due to low speed and high power, but not so great for logging because of the low speed.

 

[RSR]

I guess BOSS Moss thinks everyone is arguing!! DOH!

Anyway, what I'm saying is, what ever the pump is rated for output in GPM, that's NOT what you end up with at the remotes...

SR

If we are accused of arguing, when we aren't, does that mean the person accusing us is really the one arguing?

We may be saying the same thing. As Moss said earlier, a pump is rated for a certain flow rate, at a certain pressure head. As more friction (head) is added to the system, the pump will not be able to drive it at the desired flow rate. In that aspect, the pump flow rate may be less, if the system has more restriction than what it is designed for.

But, for any given system, whatever flow rate you have at the pump, at any given time, will be the exact same flow rate you have everywhere in the system. So, if your pump is putting out 9.5 GPM, you will have 9.5 GPM everywhere in a closed loop system. That is the fundamental physical law of conservation of mass. The only time that will potentially change is if your fluid is compressible, but that's an entirely different discussion, and not applicable to hydraulic systems.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

If we are accused of arguing, when we aren't, does that mean the person accusing us is really the one arguing?

We may be saying the same thing. As Moss said earlier, a pump is rated for a certain flow rate, at a certain pressure head. As more friction (head) is added to the system, the pump will not be able to drive it at the desired flow rate. In that aspect, the pump flow rate may be less, if the system has more restriction than what it is designed for.

But, for any given system, whatever flow rate you have at the pump, at any given time, will be the exact same flow rate you have everywhere in the system. So, if your pump is putting out 9.5 GPM, you will have 9.5 GPM everywhere in a closed loop system. That is the fundamental physical law of conservation of mass. The only time that will potentially change is if your fluid is compressible, but that's an entirely different discussion, and not applicable to hydraulic systems.

Well, you don't get 42 plus thousand post without sticking your nose in anyway you can! LOL

I guess my point is/was, if the pump flows 9.5, there's loss' at the remotes, and through the valves and fittings. Many times there are bottle neck restrictions too, so you can't depend on 9.5 being at the tool, you plug into the remote.

Other's have already pointed out that you won't get the full 9.5 unless the engine if roaring away too, unlike a pto winch that works quite well at a bit over low idle...

SR

 

[Smokeydog]

For safety and speed it would be hard to beat a 3pt pto name brand logging winch.

12,000# Warn industrial winch was faster than 12,000# mile marker. The mile marker 2 speed quicker to recover cable on high. Your gpm may vary.

My old Dodge power wagon pto winches were scary strong and somewhat dangerous. Got a 10 bolt pto for the 1965 PW transfer case that allows the transmission to provide speeds and reverse to the winch with or without the wheels turning.

Hard to beat 120’ cable, some chains, strap, snatch block, rigging shackles and hooks and a tractor for occasional logging. Save a lot of money by doing a little walking.

 

[AlaskaL3130]

What do you do with the logs once you get them to the tractor? Turn around and attach them to the three point hitch to skid out? If you are intent on using a hyd. recovery winch, why not fab up a 3 point hitch and run it off a rear remote? Add some chain slots for your chokers, tool holders, etc.