Window headers, Insulation-live and learn

JimR · Oct 18, 2005

Your builder is a jerk. He deserves to be treated like a jerk. I would put his signs back up on your property. Put another sign above them saying "Don't use this builder Inquire inside for details" File a comliant with the Better Business Bureau. Has your building inspector signed off on this type of shoddy work? If so, ask to see the state building codes for this type of poor lousy construction. This can not be to code. If it is, something is seriously wrong in your state. Document everything that you fix and repair. Pictures tell the story. Get other builders to look at it. If they agree it is poor work. Go after the guy and hang him out to dry. People like that don't deserve to be in business. I spread the word about my last contractor I hired. He was out of business shortly afterwards. Everything I said about him was the truth. No stories were made up.

KennedyDiesel · Oct 19, 2005

Going by memory, the bays went up looking like a chair if you will. Each bay had a stud that was taller than the rest. The "bays" were tied together by the nailers as well as nailing the sbays together. I won't be able to verify until we have the South wall opened up.

Basically I am prepared to have a contact do a pdf drawing detailing how it is done to accompany the photos on the site that I intend to build...

I'm not planning to push with any inspector as the building is generally sound and can be fixed. I just want the jerk to "pay" for brushing me off and learn the hard way that I am not one to be taken lightly. Other local builders could then refer to my exerience...

dmccarty · Oct 19, 2005

The inspector is part of the problem though. I just don't see how the headers would have passed inspection.

I THOUGHT I had heard of methods of framing were only one 2x was used on the top plate. That might be ok. BUT given the header I would be highly suspicous that they did things that allow only one 2x on top of the wall. I did not pay that much attention to what I was reading about using only one 2x. How much would I be saving to delete it? $100-200.

Passing inspection bothers me on this...

The JLC link I put up also has books and article on framing. Given what you are doing it might be worth spending some time and/or dollars at JLC to look into the framing details.

Later,
Dan

KennedyDiesel · Oct 19, 2005

Found a good detail on how a header is supposed to be. Also double plate:

http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/window/new/ro_framing.htm

beenthere · Oct 19, 2005

To update me, if you wouldn't mind, are there trusses sitting on a plate above the windows? What is the spacing of trusses and do they sit above 'posts' or columns that go directly to the foundation?

The only way I can see your builder getting by with the shoddy headers is if the headers are not supporting any roof load (no trusses on plates above the headers).

Urge you to be careful that you don't 'libel' the guy and get into hot water, even though you are right.
Good pictures of the practice and documentation sent to both the Wisconsin builders association with a copy to the builder and local supplier should be above board and not libelous. Documentation in print would be tough for this builder to receive, knowing it went elsewhere as well.
Just another opinion to consider. Wish you well.

JimR · Oct 19, 2005

( Found a good detail on how a header is supposed to be. Also double plate:

http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/window/new/ro_framing.htm

)

There you go. That is what it should look like. Obviously your builder came from the Builders School of Shortcuts. Hopefully you can fix all these problems and make him pay for it. A lawyer in small claims court will cost him more than settling with you. Nice website and thanks for sharing it with us. Good luck with getting what's coming to you. What really irks me is the fact that there are so many licensed idiots out there just like him. In my state you have to have like 4 years experience to even get a contractors license.

KennedyDiesel · Oct 19, 2005

Trusses are 8' rated, but I added two so the spacing became 6'. There is a truss right over the window so any of this load is transferred to the "headers" via the nails...

I plan to consult my attorney prior to documenting the situation. The builder will not pay for the repairs, but I'll make him PAY with my documentation and to purchase the website...

woodlot · Oct 20, 2005

"Trusses are 8' rated, but I added two so the spacing became 6'. "

Something is wierd here. I thought this was stud-wall construction. Your discription sounds like 1/2 stud 1/2 pole. I believe that standard stud-wall construction will put trusses at 2' oc and sheet over. I have also heard of 4'oc technique that uses perlins for metal roofs. I have never heard of stud-wall construction that puts trusses 6' or 8' oc. Maybe such a thing does exist, but man, with our snow loads that would create a tremendious strain on any support, thats why pole construction uses a 4x6, 5x6, or 6x6. Its kind of unclear but it appears your building uses a single 2x for support. I'm guessing that second 2x of the "doubled" support extends up to the side of the bottom chord of the truss and is simply functioning as lateral support. Scary.

The header appears totally inadequate but without an overall analysis of the building I'll defer judgement. It certanly is not standard construction. How did you determine that a truss sits directly above the window. Can you snap a pic of that? It appears to me that you have a "doubled" support on each side of the window, but its kind of hard to tell the diffrence between the girts and studs in the pic.

What type of foundation does this building have? How do the "doubled" support poles terminate on the bottom? On a bottom plate sitting on a monlithic slab, do they extend into the ground, or on a "stem wall" (doubtful)?

Your post is very timely. I just had materials delivered yesterday for a 36x45 pole barn. The company thats building it is on the list you linked. I'll be keeping a close eye on construction, but I've looked at a lot of pictures of their previous framing and all looked good.

Cowboyjg · Oct 20, 2005

If I am correctly understanding all of the info you have provided you have been seriously duped sir! I don't know what you paid but I wonder if he gave you a "Good Deal"? If that was what was supposed to happen, the only thing he dealt you was the Joker card.
I will say that I believe you are very fortunate that there haven't been any serious weather events. I feel it fair to believe that the entire structure was built this way and the only thing really holding the building together is the metal on the outside and what ever you have on the inside (drywall, etc.)!!! On behalf of the true craftsmen and honest builders out there, I am very sorry you got hooked up with this clown!!
Rightfully....you should insist on and be compensated for the dismantling and proper reconstruction of the building...PERIOD!

I recognize the headache and heartache associated with such a task but frankly...That would be the RIGHT thing to do. No, it's not the only way but it would be the right way!

What ever recourse you decide on though, Don't stoop to his level in paying him back. There's a right way and a wrong way to do that too. That's why you pay your attorney the big bucks.

Best of luck with your unexpected new project.

BTW... if the building was inspected and approved by the municipal building dept. as part of the construction process, I'm afraid they owe you too... /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

KennedyDiesel · Oct 20, 2005

The building is a stud wall construction with the trusses 6' on center. It has steel liner on walls and ceiling. It has been standing for 8 years now so I don't see it going any place, but plan to beef it up as needed.

We are rural and at the time of construction there was no uniform dwelling code etc in our township so no inspector etc. In fact my second building did not need to be inspected either, and I'd rather not have anybody snooping in my affairs over this. I just want justice and I think I can get it by documenting the shortcomings and displaying on a high traffic web site. I may consider the building inspector depending on how **** they can be.