Windows XP or Linux.. don't go to next MS OS

OkeeDon · Jul 18, 2005

Re: Windows XP or Linux.. don\'t go to next MS OS

 In other words.. you pay a monthly fee to watch your HDTV feed from Time Warner Cable for example. You try to record your favorite show because you want to take your wife out to eat while that show is on. Your electronics equipment won't let you record it because of the anti-copy bit embedded in the data stream.. BUT a huge pop up window may pop up that says.. "For $5.99 extra that can be automatically deducted from your credit card, we will allow you to record this show for later watching.. but one viewing only" "For $25.99 we will let you record the show and keep it to watch as many times as you want". 

I guess I'm still confused. In your example, you start off by saying that you pay a monthly fee to watch something. I don't see anywhere in there that you can copy it for the same fee -- what rights are you losing? Then, they have another fee that allows you to copy it for one viewing, and yet another that allows you to view it as much as you want. So, you pay the fees or you don't have the right to copy it, correct? Where's the problem? It's their product to price and sell, isn't it? If you don't want to pay the fees, you don't have to, right? Of course, then you also can't copy it, but yer pays yer money and yer makes yer choice...

...I just don't see the problem...unless you think that paying one fee to watch something gives you rights to do other things with the content. Where does it stop? If you have the right to copy without paying the copy fee, do you have the right to charge admission when you show it?

getut · Jul 18, 2005

Re: Windows XP or Linux.. don\'t go to next MS OS

I can't speak for iTunes style of DRM because I have never used it. I try to stay with all MP3 stuff, but I have already been burned very badly with DRM on ebooks.

Over about a year I bought a whole series of ebooks (Microsoft Reader) for my pocket pc and desktop. When I upgrade computers, I usually start fresh by NOT doing an upgrade to the previous and I occassionally even change email addresses so that I am sure to get a clean start. I was not able to use any of my ebooks on the new system. I purchased them from Barnes and Noble and called tech support. Even though I had proof that I had purchased the ebooks, they would not enable the books for the new computer for me. I bought the books, not the computer. I was already very skeptical of DRM before that but was positively livid after that occurence. Barnes and Noble eventually dropped MS ebooks altogether. I called them to ask for the publisher information for who would support issues with the ebooks, they refused to even give me that information. So the selling company drops support and the ebooks are dead. In companies efforts to stop people stealing from them, it is now OK for them to steal from the consumer (in the name of stopping piracy). All DRM solutions seem to be tied to an individual setup, which means that you can no longer freely choose to make those clean starts without losing everything you have previously purchased.

slowrev · Jul 18, 2005

Re: Windows XP or Linux.. don\'t go to next MS OS

It is inevitable we will be paying by the drink for everything. Watch a movie once, pay more to see it again. Per bit for net traffic/emails, etc... It will happen.

Ben

hobbyfarm · Jul 18, 2005

Re: Windows XP or Linux.. don\'t go to next MS OS

( ...if they don't continue the trend they have broken my trust and won't get my dollars. )

WOW,
Computer Politics! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Getting your dollar is the bottom line. Look what happened to DIVX. No dollars, so it went the way of the dodo. Market share (and hopefully NOT lawyers /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif) will drive this also, soon as the general population understands this!

MikePA · Jul 18, 2005

Re: Windows XP or Linux.. don\'t go to next MS OS

 Even though I had proof that I had purchased the ebooks, they would not enable the books for the new computer for me. I bought the books, not the computer 
As I am sure you're aware, this is done so that people do not sell/give away their old PC, already pre-loaded with all kinds of licensed software that the new recipient of the PC never purchased.

I agree the process is not perfect, but I do not have any problem with content owners protecting their content. The problem is it's not easy to identify appropriate reasons for copying and inappropriate ones.

getut · Jul 18, 2005

Re: Windows XP or Linux.. don\'t go to next MS OS

( As I am sure you're aware, this is done so that people do not sell/give away their old PC, already pre-loaded with all kinds of licensed software that the new recipient of the PC never purchased. I agree the process is not perfect, but I do not have any problem with content owners protecting their content. The problem is it's not easy to identify appropriate reasons for copying and inappropriate ones.)
Ahh.. so you're saying just because it is "difficult" for them to make sure people use it correctly, it is OK to steal from the consumer? Two wrongs don't make a right. ESPECIALLY for the consumer who is just trying to use his content that he did legally purchase. You also touch on another point to this issue. The consumer is guaranteed fair use rights that protect the consumer if he uses content in a way that the company did not foresee. So in effect it doesn't really matter if the company thinks you are using their content "appropriately" or not, just as long as you aren't selling or distributing to other people.

OkeeDon,
Check this page out.. You do have every right to record television that is beamed into your own home. You have every right to do ANYTHING you please with that copy in your own home. You can even edit the copy that you record if you so wish. If its digital you can print out the code and decorate your walls with it. The only thing you can't legally do is selll or distribute your copies to other people. Those are called fair use "RIGHTS".

_RaT_ · Jul 18, 2005

Re: Windows XP or Linux.. don\'t go to next MS OS

Ahh.. so you're saying just because it is "difficult" for them to make sure people use it correctly, it is OK to steal from the consumer? 

I wonder how many TBN'ers have pirated software applications on their computer? I wonder how many folks in China have pirated software on their computer. I may be missing the main focus of this discussion, but if I were Adobe, Microsoft or anyone else who designed software or it's related counterparts, I would be concerned about my licensing agreement being violated with computer users. I have a brother in China and it is rampant.

getut · Jul 18, 2005

Re: Windows XP or Linux.. don\'t go to next MS OS

( I wonder how many TBN'ers have pirated software applications on their computer? I wonder how many folks in China have pirated software on their computer.)

Rat, this is still missing the point. Consumer rights advocates are trying to protect the consumer fair use rights. It doesn't matter if a million people are stealing from the corporation, It still doesn't give the corporation the right to treat their PAYING customer like criminals and remove their fair use rights. Again I say, two wrongs don't make a right and never will. There are already laws in place that make that make copyright infringement wrong and are enforceable. You are right that they have the right to protect their content, but not at the expense of any paying customer.

MikePA · Jul 18, 2005

Re: Windows XP or Linux.. don\'t go to next MS OS

We'll just have to agree to disagree. The company is not 'stealing' from the consumer. If the buyer doesn't like the restrictions imposed by the seller, then they should not buy the product.

_RaT_ · Jul 18, 2005

Re: Windows XP or Linux.. don\'t go to next MS OS

Mike, you have a way of simplifying exactly what I am thinking but haven't a chance of getting out. I could not agree more.