windrow inverters

[Robert_in_NY]

I don't know why the bigger cutters don't lay larger swaths. Some do but not to the extreme of the 9' cutter. I would think the biggest limiter would be the conditioner rolls. If you make them too big then you will have problems. Also, for the most part the big cutters are used by dairys. They chop most of their hay so it doesn't have to dry down like us. But again, I am not sure why they don't make a big unit that lays a big swath.

If you use the right equipment you can beat the weather to an extent. The larger the swath and better the rake is two things to help reduce drying time. Tedding is one of the biggest helpers for areas with problems drying hay. If you just cut the hay and left it lay in NY you would rake it two days later and have to rake again before you bale it the next day. If you ted it the second day it will take off a half to full day of dry time. The rotary rakes help fluff up the windrow also which helps with air flow again speeding up dry time. So using the right equipment helps but it still requires mother nature to cooperate.

As for me, I run a thrower on my baler. My dad usually runs wagons if I taking them to my barn but sometimes he runs the baler also. If I was to start from scratch, I would build a 20' high barn, buy a decent self propelled NH stack wagon and a good high capacity baler with a quarter turn chute and go at it that way. I have too much money tied up in kicker wagons and the thrower is one more piece of equipment that I have to maintain.

Keep in mind that the fields I bale are a couple miles away from my barn so I need to be able to haul hay fast and the kicker racks are the best way to do that right now. If I have to haul the racks very far then I hire a kid to stack the hay in the rack as I bale. Doing this allows me to put a couple hundred bales on a 8x18 rack and a few more on the 9x18's.

Are you currently haying or are you thinking of getting into it?

 

[jimg]

>>Also, for the most part the big cutters are used by dairys. They chop
>>most of their hay so it doesn't have to dry down like us. But again,
>>I am not sure why they don't make a big unit that lays a big swath.
Its funny you should mention this in light of the article I posted above...it was done by Cornell in cooperation w/ NYS no less. I suppose though conventional wisdom was to windrow and now that seems to be passe. How do your bales fare being run thru a kicker? Ive heard they can be destructive.

>>I would build a 20' high barn, buy a decent self propelled NH stack >>wagon and a good high capacity baler with a quarter turn chute and
>>go at it that way.I have too much money tied up in kicker wagons >>and the thrower is one more piece of equipment that I have to
>>maintain.
Ive been thinking about both ways and havent come to any conclusion...thanx for the input! I guess its a matter of which set of problems is easier to manage....nothing is perfect (or rarely so).

>>Keep in mind that the fields I bale are a couple miles away from
>>my barn so I need to be able to haul hay fast and the kicker racks
>>are the best way to do that right now.
Thats a ways...how many bale baskets do you own and how fast can you fill them?

>>Are you currently haying or are you thinking of getting into it?
Not currently...Im doing all the homework I can right now so I can go on my own in the future. Ive done all of the steps exc plan and that not all together or in a single farm operation. Its sort of a patchwork if you will of experience. Its conversations like this which fill in the gaps and make sense of otherwise disjoint steps. My plan is to do hay only (instead of animals) and do that well.

 

[Charolais]

I cut and condition with an 820 JD. I can spread the total width of 9 ft. But I keep that to about 8 ft. so I don't drag cut hay under the shoe at the wobble box. The 820 has a steel flap right behind the rollers so it can divert the hay straight to the ground. The hood on the rear is never used when I spread the hay out.

>>Under what circumstances would you break this routine and do more?<<

Some years we may have weeks on end of rain in May. That will throw cutting in to June. If the temp. is in the high 90's + longer days of sunshine I can sometimes cut one day and bale the next. I will drop an extra 5-7 acres per day then.

>>Prior to the 254 what were you doing?<<
I used a 256 reel NH rake and had to wait for the hay to dry before I raked hay. With the 254 rotary I can rake hay and make it dry. It fluffs the hay up so air can get through it.

>>Day 3 then is rake in the AM and immediately afterward bale?<<

Yes. And on day three if there's no dew I can sometimes bale by 11 am. I'll add: This will only work if the hay has been crimped good. I run the 820 conditioner with all the pressure it will do. It has three settings and I use the one with the most pressure. The 820 setting isn't like other conditioners I've used in the past. The highest pressure setting does not crush hay, it just crimps. All of my hay is Fescue/Orchard grass/ clover mix. And I round bale.

I only make one cutting per year. I have all my fields fenced in,crossed fenced with waterers and the cows take care of it after I get the first cutting.

Just a note: I'm not trying to talk you out of an inverter. Just listed a reason or two why they aren't used much in this area. As it's been said in this thread a couple of times,each area of the country is different and will use different equipment. This is just what works for me and my climate.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I do not have any trouble with the kicker destroying bales. I have heard that if you use poly twine and a bale sits right at the edge of the thrower for any lenght of time it will burn the string off. I use sisal and that is not a problem.

Running a thrower is not that difficult. You just have to use common sense. When you start to fill a wagon you keep the thrower set at a lower power. There is no need to throw the bales against the rack and beat them and the wagons up. As the wagon fills you adjust the throwers power to land on top of the pile in the wagon and roll to the back. It is much easier on the bales. But if you make good tight bales then you don't have a problem either way. Loose bales will get beat up though but they are no good for anything anyway so you don't want them.

The wagons I use are not bale baskets (they are what hook straight to the baler and there is a chute that leads the hay up to the top of them and they dump the load where you want to. I use standard kicker racks. Just a hay wagon with 3 sides and a front gate. I have five kicker wagons and am going to build one this summer if time allows.

I am like you, all I do is hay (well some tillage now as I am expanding to the straw market). My main market is horse hay and small square bales. I do some times have request to do round bales in which case I rent a round baler from my NH dealer. I will suggest you try and develop a great relationship with your local dealer if you don't have one already. When it comes to haying it is very important to be able to show up in the middle of the day with a breakdown and have the mechanics drop what they are doing to help you out so you can get back to haying. I am still learning about my baler and am lucky to be able to run it to my dealer at a moments notice (1 mile away from my fields) if I need help locating a problem or getting a part. All of my hay equipment is Ford, NH and Gehl so that I can get parts fast and easy from my closest dealer.

 

[jimg]

>>I cut and condition with an 820 JD. I can spread the total width of 9
>>ft.
From what I can find this is a sicklebar mower isnt it? I couldnt find the total width of cut though.
If you used a disc mower would you be able to finish mowing faster? It seems that mowing more isnt an option in this case b/c of baling time and labor issues. So, Im figuring that a disc mower wouldnt pay for itself in your situation. Do I understand this correctly?

>>The 820 has a steel flap right behind the rollers so it can divert the
>>ay straight to the ground. The hood on the rear is never used when
>>I spread the hay out.
What is the 'hood' used for and why would you choose not to use it? That is, what function does it perform that you dont want?

>>Some years we may have weeks on end of rain in May.
I understand weather can really mess things up but one of the subjects Im trying hard to figure out is how to move as quickly from mowing to baling even in less than ideal weather. If I cut at optimal time then I get most nutritious hay which is what Im after. Maybe theres just no way short of appling preservative during baling...but Id rather not. I had also considered making baleage in the event of bad weather just so I could harvest my crop at the right time. Id likely feel differently about it if I was going to consume most of the hay myself but all of my crop is going to be sold and Id like it to be high quality.

>>If the temp. is in the high 90's + longer days of sunshine I can
>>sometimes cut one day and bale the next. I will drop an extra 5-7
>>acres per day then.
VA in summer is pretty humid and even so youre able to bale in 2 days...wow!!

So the area you mow depends primarily on what youre able to bale before bad weather comes? If you mow another 5-7 acres why not 10 or 12? Just trying to understand how you figured 5-7 instead of more....

>>Yes. And on day three if there's no dew I can sometimes bale by
>>11 am.
Another wow....It sounds then like you really bale in 2 and change instead of 3.

>>does not crush hay, it just crimps.
Are the rollers rubber of steel? Are they the chevron paterrn or straight grooves?

>>All of my hay is Fescue/Orchard grass/ clover mix. And I round
>>bale.
Since you mentioned it Ill tell you this...my plan is to setup in VA. However Im thinking more N and E b/c Id like to grow Timothy and that just doesnt do well in your area...or so says the ag buletins and climate maps Ive looked at.

I thought you were sq baling...Im sure rds cut down on labor for sure. Do you leave them in the field or move them? How many are you making/yr? B/c of my market Im going to sq bale primarily.

>>I only make one cutting per year.
If you wanted have many cuts/yr could you do?

>>Just a note: I'm not trying to talk you out of an inverter.
No problem...like I said I really appreciate all of the input (very much!). I want to hear what you have to say and why. So, dont hold back pls....I really want to hear whether it matches my ideas or not.

 

[jimg]

>>I am like you, all I do is hay (well some tillage now as I am
>>expanding to the straw market). My main market is horse hay and >>small square bales.
Then my operation will be very similar to yours...this is mainly the market Im after.

Whats getting you into the straw market? What sor of straw and what are you doing w/ the grain you get off it? I looked a bit into this and theres a HUGE amt to know and understand about grain farming...enough so that I decided against it (at least for now).

>> I do some times have request to do round bales in which case I
>>rent a round baler from my NH dealer.
Those rd bales would be off your farm are is this custom work for someone else? Round bales usually mean cattle feed...is this the case?

>>I will suggest you try and develop a great relationship with your >>local dealer if you don't have one already.
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Oh yes...that was HIGH on my list. In NH my NH dealer was esp good about dropping by even though my operation there was tiny. His field mechanics were excellent too and were willing to show and teach as they worked...I learned loads from one particular mechanic....a very bright guy.

>>When it comes to haying it is very important to be able to show up
>> in the middle of the day with a breakdown and have the mechanics
>> drop what they are doing to help you out so you can get back to
>>haying.
I worked for a farm that wasnt willing to call for mechanics (for whatever reason) and that job was murder. On one afternoon their knotters 'exploded' shutting the baler down and there was still hay in the field. Picking up loose hay after a full work day just wasnt fun.
So, Ive had first hand experience w/ this and will try very hard not to make that mistake.

>>to my dealer at a moments notice (1 mile away from my fields)
Thats extremely convenient!

>>All of my hay equipment is Ford, NH and Gehl so that I can get
>>parts fast and easy from my closest dealer.
Good pt...I decided to go w/ brands local to my farm so I could get parts when needed on short notice. Having a big *well stocked* dealer is very valuable. (As are parts counter guys who know my equipment.) When I 'interview' for a dealer I was going to ask about his parts inventory and how he was going to be able to support my operation.

 

[jimg]

One more thing...I really appreciate all the input you guys have given...thanx!!!

 

[Charolais]

>>From what I can find this is a sicklebar mower isnt it? I couldnt find the total width of cut though.
If you used a disc mower would you be able to finish mowing faster? It seems that mowing more isnt an option in this case b/c of baling time and labor issues. So, Im figuring that a disc mower wouldnt pay for itself in your situation. Do I understand this correctly?<<

Yes it's a sicklebar. It's 9'9" if I remember correct. I don't have the manual in front of me at the moment. I may have to go with a disc conditioner in years to come because it's getting harder to find the sickle type. I bought the 820 new that was left over from the prior year and as far as I know JD doesn't make the sicklebar now. The dealer wanted the machine moved and gave me a heck of a deal. I couldn't turn it down. And no the disc type conditioner wouldn't help me speed wise since I only cut what I can bale in a day.

Let me add this: I have a BIL that lives a few miles out of Roanoke Va. He uses a disc mower (not conditioned). He uses a tedder also. It takes his hay 5-6 days to dry with that set up and that's running the tedder over the hay twice. I would go nuts with that set up. I like to dry hay fast. Get it rolled up and out of the sun as fast as possible.

>>What is the 'hood' used for and why would you choose not to use it? That is, what function does it perform that you dont want?<<

I guess it's there for looks. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif In my case it is anyway. If I raise the flap behind the rollers the hood will windrow the hay in to a norrow row. I just don't use it. I guess it would be good for haylage.

>>So the area you mow depends primarily on what youre able to bale before bad weather comes? If you mow another 5-7 acres why not 10 or 12? Just trying to understand how you figured 5-7 instead of more....<<

I could cut more. I just like to keep up with what I cut in a day. Hay season in Va. can change in and hour. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Watch the weather at noon and zero chance of rain. Then by 4 pm it may rain 2 inches. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Two years ago I was lucky enough to have good weather around the 10th of May. I cut 20 acres per day for 3 days in a row and was able to have it all under a shed by day 7. Now that doesn't sound like a lot of hay but for one person it'll keep you busy for those 7 days. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I don't sell hay either. All I need is enough to make it through the winter.

>>Are the rollers rubber of steel? Are they the chevron paterrn or straight grooves?<<

They are rubber. I guess you could call them the chevron type. The treads are at an angle.

>>Since you mentioned it Ill tell you this...my plan is to setup in VA. However Im thinking more N and E b/c Id like to grow Timothy and that just doesnt do well in your area...or so says the ag buletins and climate maps Ive looked at.<<

I've seen some Timothy here but it won't survive very long in our hot dry spells from July in to Sept. Fescue is about the only grass that will hold up here.

>>I thought you were sq baling...Im sure rds cut down on labor for sure. Do you leave them in the field or move them? How many are you making/yr? B/c of my market Im going to sq bale primarily.<<

I'd plant the farm in trees if I had to square bale by my self. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif It's a good thing the round baler was invented when it was or the nations cattle inventory would be about a half million below what it is. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif What I roll in a year will vary. It depends on how much I have left from the prior year. But 3oo rolls would be max. I store all my hay under a roof setting on pallets. I also unroll the hay when feeding. I do everything I can to keep waste down. Hay is expensive to grow. I also use stockpile fescue to graze in the winter. I like for the cows to do as much grazing as possible. They can bale hay cheaper than I can. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

>>If you wanted have many cuts/yr could you do?<<

On a good year I could get three cutting if I didn't graze and fertilize heavy. Since I started stockpile grazing I cut back on the fertilizer in the spring and use more nitrogen in the fall. This year I need more hay so I fertilized more. We had a drought last summer that ran from July to mid October and I had to feed hay in that time frame so my hay supply is lower now that it's been in 4 years.

>>No problem...like I said I really appreciate all of the input (very much!). I want to hear what you have to say and why. So, dont hold back pls....I really want to hear whether it matches my ideas or not.<<

I suggest to watch the folks in the area you plan to grow hay and see what they do. It will differ from farm to farm some but climate will be one thing in common they all have to deal with. The weather has rule over your hay crop. I like the highest quality hay I can grow but I don't always get that. If I have to wait until June quality goes down and quantity goes up. I can get buy ok on lower quality but if you're selling hay I know you don't want that. Until we can control the weather we'll just take it as it comes. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I was at first a little hesitant to get into the straw market but I have a lot of request for straw. I can sell the grain off to the local mills but currently I have to hire out the harvesting and hauling.

The round bales are always custom. However, I try to cut fields I know as cutting strange fields is a gamble and I don't like to gamble my equipment like that. The bales are used as mulch in the grape vineyards so the hay doesn't have to be high quality. I usually know if I have orders for round bales at the beginning of the year so if I have hay that gets rained on I round bale that. If I don't I cut a neighbors field that he doesn't use and help him out and myself as he doesn't have to mow it.

I don't usually have more then a couple hundred 4x4 round bales to do each year so buying a machine is out of the question. I just "rent" one from my dealer (they don't actually charge me rent but don't tell the lady who keeps the books /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif)

As for your question about the hood on the discbine. It is to make the hay into a windrow. Some guys like to windrow the hay as they cut it as it dries more of the ground out faster. Then ted it the next day before raking on the third day. It is there if you want it, otherwise if you want a wide swath you shut the gate down and it forces all the hay straight down and leaves a nice wide swath.

As for the discbine vs. haybine (sickle machine), think of it like this. The faster you get the hay on the ground the sooner you can bale it. Discbines are not as touchy as a sickle machine either. It is very rare to plug a discbine or have any problems what so ever. But if you damage a blade on a sickle machine it will cause you problems or if you have to run into a previously cut swath (middle of the field), the sickle machine does not like that. The discbine doesn't care one way or the other.

 

[Charolais]

I would love to see your hay operation in action. I traveled to Ohio and Pa. some years back and saw hay machinery I've never seen before.

I have a good friend in West Kentucky that grows hay to sell. He sends me pictures every so often of his operation. I can tell you there's a lot of equipment out there that's never made it to southern Va. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif He puts up about 30,000 square bales a year for the horse folks. He has 4 large chicken houses and uses the litter on the alfalfa/ orchard grass mix. He comes by to visit me every year now in Sept. He brought me a bale of his hay. I can say with out a doubt I've never seen that kind of quality of hay in southern Va. We just don't have the soil to grow that kind of hay.

I have to admire you folks that grow high quality hay to sell. You lay your reputation on the line each year for that quality. You must work hard and fast to capture that time frame to make good hay fast. It's become an art.