Winter oil Viscosity

[Deadman]

I've always been under the assumption that Diesel oils don't have "friction modifiers" in them to make the oil more slippery like a full synthetic car oil does. Diesels need this, but car engines benefit from the friction modifiers in them by reducing the friction.

I run car oil in my cars because of this.

 

[RalphVa]

I run 0-40 if it needs to cold start. My tractor runs 15-40 because it sits in my heated shop always and the 15-40 is what I have a bunch of.
I'd run 0-40 for sure if you needed to start in the cold temps. Its the same oil, just flows better cold which is what you want anyway.

The temperature that the "0w" is determined from is -35 to -40 C (@ -40 C=F). If the other end of the determination is "w40", then at ANY temperature between -40 and 212 F that the "w40" is determined will have a HIGHER viscosity than if the oil is a "w30". If the lowest value is a "15w", then it'll have a really higher temperature, at the normal -10 to 40 F starting temperatures of our tractors in the winter. It'll then take probably several seconds more for a 0w40 or certainly a 15w40 oil to reach your valve train than it would if the oil is a 5w30 or 0w30.

Most engine wear occurs at startup. You're slowly destroying your engine by using a 15w40 oil.

 

[RalphVa]

I've always been under the assumption that Diesel oils don't have "friction modifiers" in them to make the oil more slippery like a full synthetic car oil does. Diesels need this, but car engines benefit from the friction modifiers in them by reducing the friction.

I run car oil in my cars because of this.

Doubt this. The car I was referring to was a turbo diesel.

 

[Carhartt Cowboy]

My new to me son n law has a 4240 and always has 15-40 wt oil in his tractor during the winter. We get temps down in the teens and minus degs in the part of the country where we live. It seems every year he has issues with the tractor starting during the lower temps. I have been helping him with this issue and I have convinced him to keep a Battery tender on the bats and that has helped.

My question is would 10-30 wt make a improvement with his situation and what about a 5- 40 synthetic as well and he could run the 5-40 all summer also and not half to change oil every season. I stopped using 15-40 in my 7.3 Ford PS and opted to use 10-30 and experienced good results and according to what I read the 15-40 shears down to a 30 wt anyway after some time in the engine.

I'm curious what others are doing in this situation,,,,,and before I forget to add the Bats. and voltage output are good and up to date.

Oil weight is a contributing factor in engine wear, not in starting issues. Several things you can do to help the tractor start like it is 60 degrees.

1. Block heater- warms the block so there is less heat loss to the block during starting, equals faster combustion.
2. battery blanket/warmer - keeps the power level up. An 80 watt blanket does wonders.
3. engine oil heater - warm oil is easier flowing and gets to lubricating faster. I use a 150W adhesive heating pad on bottom of the oil pan.

As far as oil, as others have stated, 5W-40 T6 full syn is what I have chosen to run year-round.

 

[DieselBound]

Oil weight is a contributing factor in engine wear, not in starting issues. Several things you can do to help the tractor start like it is 60 degrees.

1. Block heater- warms the block so there is less heat loss to the block during starting, equals faster combustion.
2. battery blanket/warmer - keeps the power level up. An 80 watt blanket does wonders.
3. engine oil heater - warm oil is easier flowing and gets to lubricating faster. I use a 150W adhesive heating pad on bottom of the oil pan.

As far as oil, as others have stated, 5W-40 T6 full syn is what I have chosen to run year-round.

Actually, oils DO have an effect on starting in cold conditions. That's the entire point of the 5w and 0w oils. I was reminded of this when starting my log splitter that had been sitting (we've been hitting near teens of late); not until I'd yanked on the starter nearly 3 dozen times (rapidly, because I KNEW the oil was thicker than snot- I couldn't get the necessary cranking speed for the longest time) did the thing start to feel like I wasn't trying to mix cement! If I'd been running a 5w or such in the thing (I believe that it's factory 30w) I'm pretty sure my arm wouldn't pissed off at me! :laughing:

T6 is a good all-around oil. I am currently running Delo 5w-40 and, though I cannot substantiate it (yet), it seems to be doing better than the T6 vis a vis oil consumption (in my ALH TDI VWs; I am also running this oil in my old tractor [new one hasn't had its first oil change yet- it'll be with Delo as well] and in my generator; my old IDI Ford truck may see it, still trying to decide whether it's worth it given it sees so few miles).

First priority in cold weather starting (assuming one has switched to #1) is to make sure your GP system is functioning properly. That should handle well into the teens with little issue.

 

[Carhartt Cowboy]

Actually, oils DO have an effect on starting in cold conditions. That's the entire point of the 5w and 0w oils. I was reminded of this when starting my log splitter that had been sitting (we've been hitting near teens of late); not until I'd yanked on the starter nearly 3 dozen times (rapidly, because I KNEW.....

My apologies, I should have clarified and stated in the instance of an electrical motor (starter) turning an internal combustion engine that oil viscosity is not a major percentage of the necessary power required to turn over the crank shaft. A 'negligible amount' would be the proper term. In your example, the amount of power available from your power source (human body) the increased viscosity may, of course, not be considered "negligible".

 

[Cat_Driver]

Is Synthetic Motor Oil Better For Your Car? - YouTube

 

[RalphVa]

I once saw a video made by our research guys. They put a Chrysler (or Dodge?) with 2.2 liter 4 cylinder engine and transparent valve cover in a -40 F/C (they're same at this temp) cold room. They started the engine and filmed it with various oils in it.

With anything BUT 0wxx oil, the valve cover showed a huge amount of oil smoke upon startup because the valve train would get no lubrication for quite a few seconds. On plain Jane oils, the oil smoke was huge.

You get the most engine wear on startup. Get the lowest 1st number in that xxwyy multi grade that you can get that's diesel rated. Or, if you change your oil without many hours on it once/year, you could get by with a gasoline engine oil that would have a 0wxx rating because the main difference between gasoline and diesel oils is additives in the diesel oil to keep the soot in suspension (change on time and not hours, not much soot to worry about suspending).

However, you should be able to get at least a 5w30 diesel oil somewhere, possibly the Castrol at a VW dealership for TDI (turbo diesel) engines. VW has never had an engine failure due to lubrication issues on their diesels, changed generally at 10k miles.

 

[DieselBound]

Ralph, yup, lowest lower number is best (how low someone is willing to pay for is up to the individual- find the best value point).

All my ALHs (VE engines) are currently running Delo 5W-40 (subject to switching to Rotella T6 if there's a good price on it). I'm changing at 10k intervals, though according to lab test results I should be able to get several thousand more miles out of my oil: someone went 20k miles and the lab report showed that it was just a little bit beyond service life- 15k would have been OK. Being able to do top-side oil changes makes oil and oil filter changes pretty painless, so 10k is what I'm OK with. VW PD engines require their own spec of oil; from my understanding it's mostly about their cams (stated to be "soft"- more lobes for pushing injectors just adds up to extra stress points).