Wood gas vehicles: firewood in the fuel tank

[Blue hood]

I guess I have received more negative responses before questions have been asked in regard to the equipment and/or the project itself, so now I will be clear giving more details I first thought were irrelevant.

In regard to the Cat D4D crawler tractor, I still haven't purchased it, and yes, it has been rebuilt and upgraded with a bigger engine. It's an old iron but is in excellent condition.
There are a few bigger crawlers (D5 180 HP), but I don't think that I should go over what I need, even if they only cost 20% more.

If I'm going to use a wood gas generator as a fuel alternative I would rather install it on a pre-computer crawler than a newer one for obvious reasons. The additional weight around the heavy crawler will not make any performance difference. Actually it will give me more ground pressure and stability.
Another advantages of the crawler is worldly common, easy to maintain and repair

The new wood gas generators aren't the ones used to be, now they are cleaner and more efficient (EU) .
I'm looking in the USA for who couldt custom build it using the same technology.

In regard to the TBN member who asked me why I don't buy or make a biodiesel generator. Is a good question, actually, was my first choice, but where the project it's going to take place, (abroad), it will be impossible to collect 55 gallons of restaurant fryer oil daily, and to grow canola to get clean oil. I would rather stay away from that business.
As I said, I already have tons of raw material that I could burn in the wood gas generator

Please send me some information if you know about some wood gas generator builder.

Thanks again and I'm sorry if there was something misunderstood.

 

[Little Red Tractor]

I'm afraid your DIY gassifyer will eat up all the time you'd planned for your project.

 

[MossRoad]

I guess I have received more negative responses before questions have been asked in regard to the equipment and/or the project itself, so now I will be clear giving more details I first thought were irrelevant.

In regard to the Cat D4D crawler tractor, I still haven't purchased it, and yes, it has been rebuilt and upgraded with a bigger engine. It's an old iron but is in excellent condition.
There are a few bigger crawlers (D5 180 HP), but I don't think that I should go over what I need, even if they only cost 20% more.

If I'm going to use a wood gas generator as a fuel alternative I would rather install it on a pre-computer crawler than a newer one for obvious reasons. The additional weight around the heavy crawler will not make any performance difference. Actually it will give me more ground pressure and stability.
Another advantages of the crawler is worldly common, easy to maintain and repair

The new wood gas generators aren't the ones used to be, now they are cleaner and more efficient (EU) .
I'm looking in the USA for who couldt custom build it using the same technology.

In regard to the TBN member who asked me why I don't buy or make a biodiesel generator. Is a good question, actually, was my first choice, but where the project it's going to take place, (abroad), it will be impossible to collect 55 gallons of restaurant fryer oil daily, and to grow canola to get clean oil. I would rather stay away from that business.
As I said, I already have tons of raw material that I could burn in the wood gas generator

Please send me some information if you know about some wood gas generator builder.

Thanks again and I'm sorry if there was something misunderstood.

It sounds like your trying to talk yourself into ignoring the obvious.

Let's say the wood gasifier you go with is clean (it's not). You'll still get considerably less power than you would with diesel fuel. Gasifiers were common during WWII because the petroleum-based fuels were going towards the war effort. So people made the gasifiers to get SOME work out of their machines. It wasn't optimum power. It was bare necessity power.

You're also not putting a monetary value on your time. I'd guess, based on my own experiences with heating out house with firewood for the past 10-12 years, that you could get a part time job at minimum wage and work fewer hours to make enough money to pay for diesel fuel than the hours you will spend harvesting and making the wood fuel for your gasifier. Don't forget the standing around time waiting for it to heat up, the time you'll have to spend cleaning it out, etc. It's all additional time you'll be spending VS just filling it up in 5-10 minutes and going again.

How large is this thing going to have to be, and where will you mount it on a dozer where it will not interfere with your operator's vision, clearance on whatever side or end of the machine you decide to install it on, plumbing to the engine compartment, etc.?

If you make a smaller unit, you'll be stopping to add wood more often.

It just doesn't seem financially reasonable if you put a value on your time. I don't see the ROI (Return On Investment) in 2000 hours of operation.

 

[etpm]

I guess I have received more negative responses before questions have been asked in regard to the equipment and/or the project itself, so now I will be clear giving more details I first thought were irrelevant.

In regard to the Cat D4D crawler tractor, I still haven't purchased it, and yes, it has been rebuilt and upgraded with a bigger engine. It's an old iron but is in excellent condition.
There are a few bigger crawlers (D5 180 HP), but I don't think that I should go over what I need, even if they only cost 20% more.

If I'm going to use a wood gas generator as a fuel alternative I would rather install it on a pre-computer crawler than a newer one for obvious reasons. The additional weight around the heavy crawler will not make any performance difference. Actually it will give me more ground pressure and stability.
Another advantages of the crawler is worldly common, easy to maintain and repair

The new wood gas generators aren't the ones used to be, now they are cleaner and more efficient (EU) .
I'm looking in the USA for who couldt custom build it using the same technology.

In regard to the TBN member who asked me why I don't buy or make a biodiesel generator. Is a good question, actually, was my first choice, but where the project it's going to take place, (abroad), it will be impossible to collect 55 gallons of restaurant fryer oil daily, and to grow canola to get clean oil. I would rather stay away from that business.
As I said, I already have tons of raw material that I could burn in the wood gas generator

Please send me some information if you know about some wood gas generator builder.

Thanks again and I'm sorry if there was something misunderstood.

Could you please post a link or two about the new and improved gasifiers? All that I know about them is from about 30 years ago. Back then nothing had really changed from WW2. Though they had been optimized some the gases produced were still a mix. This mix contained gases with different values as fuels. So the energy content of the gases produced varied widely. It also made a big difference which wood was used. Where is "abroad"? What kind of wood do you plan on using? Where will you dispose of the ash and how will you handle the ash? I'm really curious.
Thanks,
Eric

 

[etpm]

To the OP: I decided to look online to see what may have changed in wood gasifier technology. It looks like they do produce cleaner gas but the heavier components end up as "tar" that must be disposed of. How will you do this? Though diesel engines can be converted to run on methane the gas must be injected, not pre mixed with the air. And it still must be ignited with some other heat source besides the compressed air. Glow plug, spark plug, or diesel pilot. And this is for methane, which has 5 times the heat energy, by weight, of CO. And CO is the main gas produced by wood gasifiers. I did see one setup that converts the wood distillates to diesel fuel, or at least a diesel like fuel. 5kG wood for one liter of fuel. How are you planning to use the gasifier output to power your engine?
Eric

 

[Fixastuff]

It'll be pretty easy, go for it!

 

[MossRoad]

Read this...

GEK Wiki / Run an Engine with the GEK

wiki.gekgasifier.com

Big engines don't do so well. They recommend small engines. The lager the engine, the more wood you'll need (duh), but in reality, you'll need way more than I think you realize.

Also, they discuss diesel applications. The smoke alone cannot ignite with just compression. You either have to keep running a small amount of diesel to set off the combustion, or remove the injectors and install spark plugs and some sort of timing system.

Geeeze it's going to be an incredibly hard and bothersome project just to convert it. Hats off to you if you can pull it off.

 

[Blue hood]

Could you please post a link or two about the new and improved gasifiers? All that I know about them is from about 30 years ago. Back then nothing had really changed from WW2. Though they had been optimized some the gases produced were still a mix. This mix contained gases with different values as fuels. So the energy content of the gases produced varied widely. It also made a big difference which wood was used. Where is "abroad"? What kind of wood do you plan on using? Where will you dispose of the ash and how will you handle the ash? I'm really curious.
Thanks,
Eric

 

[Blue hood]

Could you please post a link or two about the new and improved gasifiers? All that I know about them is from about 30 years ago. Back then nothing had really changed from WW2. Though they had been optimized some the gases produced were still a mix. This mix contained gases with different values as fuels. So the energy content of the gases produced varied widely. It also made a big difference which wood was used. Where is "abroad"? What kind of wood do you plan on using? Where will you dispose of the ash and how will you handle the ash? I'm really curious.
Thanks,
Eric

 

[Renze]

Make sure to document the project on film, so it can generate enough income on Youtube to let a contractor do the actual job, because you wont have time to do both...

 

[Kernopelli]

I am currently building a gasifier to run a generator using Ben Perterson's book Wood Gasifier Builder's Bible: Off Grid Fuel for the Prepared Homestead: Wood Gas in Minutes: Peterson, Ben: 9798633811865: Amazon.com: Books

I will be sticking with a gas/LP engine but he does state you can use wood gas to power a diesel but he doesn't give it much attention/input but he states it can be done by fueling with 20% diesel/80% wood gas mix.

 

[etpm]

I am currently building a gasifier to run a generator using Ben Perterson's book Wood Gasifier Builder's Bible: Off Grid Fuel for the Prepared Homestead: Wood Gas in Minutes: Peterson, Ben: 9798633811865: Amazon.com: Books

I will be sticking with a gas/LP engine but he does state you can use wood gas to power a diesel but he doesn't give it much attention/input but he states it can be done by fueling with 20% diesel/80% wood gas mix.

Please let us know how well it works for you. Wood gasifiers still seem to me to be one of last ditch solutions for energy. I wonder how they compare overall to growing an oil producing crop and using that oil straight in a Lister type diesel engine. Once established trees require less tending than some sort of oil seed crop and don't need to be harvested every year. In fact, the trees may already be full grown woods that take care of themselves completely. But they still need to be cut down, sawn up, and then split and dried. And there is still the waste from distilling wood. How is that dealt with responsibly? Seed crops need to be pressed but at least the leftover stuff can be fed to livestock or just used as fertilizer.
Eric

 

[Blue hood]

etpm

I don't know your needs but growing an oil producing crop like canola is a lot of work and probably could yield around 95 to 240 gal. per acre. Even if you get lucky using it to fuel your Yanmar it will burn it in about 200 hours (1.2 GPH) in summer, in winter you will need to hit.

To develop my project I'm trying to use a wood gas generator to burn the biomass as fuel because I already have the raw material at almost zero cost.

By the way, MossRoad sent an excelent link that will give you a good idea of efficient wood gas generators.

GEK Wiki / Run an Engine with the GEK

wiki.gekgasifier.com

 

[etpm]

etpm

I don't know your needs but growing an oil producing crop like canola is a lot of work and probably could yield around 95 to 240 gal. per acre. Even if you get lucky using it to fuel your Yanmar it will burn it in about 200 hours (1.2 GPH) in summer, in winter you will need to hit.

To develop my project I'm trying to use a wood gas generator to burn the biomass as fuel because I already have the raw material at almost zero cost.

By the way, MossRoad sent an excelent link that will give you a good idea of efficient wood gas generators.

GEK Wiki / Run an Engine with the GEK

wiki.gekgasifier.com

I guess I wasn't clear. I am only curious about modern woodgas vs oil seed for powering a simple diesel engine, I'm not gonna do either. I did notice, according to the link you posted, that you will need to use at least 200 pounds of biomass per hour to run your tractor. And it looks like the unit will be so big i wonder where you will put it?
Eric

 

[MossRoad]

I guess I wasn't clear. I am only curious about modern woodgas vs oil seed for powering a simple diesel engine, I'm not gonna do either. I did notice, according to the link you posted, that you will need to use at least 200 pounds of biomass per hour to run your tractor. And it looks like the unit will be so big i wonder where you will put it?
Eric

I think you're reading the chart wrong. It doesn't look like it says 200 pounds of biomass per hour. It looks like it says 200cubic meters of biogas (smoke).

1 ton, or 2000# of biomass to equal about 100 gallons of liquid fuel.
200# to equal 10 gallons of fuel
20# to equal 1 gallon of fuel.

So if a tractor burns 1 gallon of liquid fuel per hour, you'd need 10# of biomass per hour.

At least that's the way I'm reading it.

 

[etpm]

I think you're reading the chart wrong. It doesn't look like it says 200 pounds of biomass per hour. It looks like it says 200cubic meters of biogas (smoke).

1 ton, or 2000# of biomass to equal about 100 gallons of liquid fuel.
200# to equal 10 gallons of fuel
20# to equal 1 gallon of fuel.

So if a tractor burns 1 gallon of liquid fuel per hour, you'd need 10# of biomass per hour.

At least that's the way I'm reading it.

From the link the Rule of Thumb was 2 pounds is about equal to 1 HP hour. His tractor is at least 100 HP. So he will need to use about 200 pounds of biomass per hour.
Eric

 

[Blue hood]

etpm

What could work for me may not necessarily work for somebody else, building up the reservoir dozing dirt or moving it with a dump trailer as in land clearing, being repetitive short distances chores that involve round trips, (point A to point A every 10 minutes or so) ), to have a large generator's hopper to carry big biomass loads isn't necessary.
I have to build the gas generator around the crawler tractor's heavy duties not the other way around. Logistics.
Later I could disassemble it and used as a regular diesel crawler if it takes the beat.

 

[etpm]

etpm

What could work for me may not necessarily work for somebody else, building up the reservoir dozing dirt or moving it with a dump trailer as in land clearing, being repetitive short distances chores that involve round trips, (point A to point A every 10 minutes or so) ), to have a large generator's hopper to carry big biomass loads isn't necessary.
I have to build the gas generator around the crawler tractor's heavy duties not the other way around. Logistics.
Later I could disassemble it and used as a regular diesel crawler if it takes the beat.

I certainly hope it all works out for you. The link you posted had a lot of information. But if you go this route please be aware that some stuff suggested on the site is truly half-assed. If using a spark plug in a diesel the site says that spark plugs threads are usually pretty close in size to injector thread sizes and a spark plug can be forced to work. The site even mentioned press fitting a spark plug into a Lister diesel engine. They didn't think it would work because the Lister engine used indirect injection. It did work after all and the author was surprised. I was surprised that they would press fit a spark plug into an engine. This method would not seal against compression very well. The spark plug would probably blow out in a short period of time. And replacing the plug would ruin the pres fit for the next spark plug. And why on earth would anybody ruin a good engine with this method unless it was an emergency. So please be careful in how you use information from this site.

Eric

 

[Jchonline]

How to make a million dollars: First, start with a million dollars...

If you can't afford $60K on your project then you can't afford the lifestyle you want to become accustomed to. Erase any notions of such dreams and go rent a small apartment in town.

If you still have champagne tastes then marry a rich woman to be your sugar momma.

Man I love your posts Mike!

 

[Jchonline]

Just how often do you have to add wood? Does it matter if it is green? I assume so as it would not burn as hot if it was. If it needs to be dry then you better get started. In Florida it will probably take 2 years for the moisture content to drop below 15%....

Heck I would watch a DIY thread on this just to see if it works...but I would not try it myself.

Have you gotten bids to have a contractor do the work?